The BOV did help? Interesting. Oh well, sorry for leading you astray.

20 degrees at idle isn't outside the realm of acceptable. To tune the idle spark timing, get the motor in a stable idle with a stable AFR. Watch the vacuum reading in the EMS. Start with something way too low like 10 degrees. Increase the timing. As you do so, the motor will generally get a bit of torque and rev up a little. The idle air valve controller should respond and close the valve a little, deepening the vacuum. Let the idle re-stablize. Re-advance. Keep doing this until the motor stops responding with a deeper vacuum and that's the ideal idle spark timing.

As far as the closed-loop, something isn't right. That narrowband system should work. Monitor the O2 sensor's voltage in the EMS software with closed-loop OFF. Manually change around the mixture and look for flips in the narrowband's output. If it never happens, then rev the motor to 3000 RPM and try again at that rev. If it DOES happen then, your narrowband isn't getting sufficiently hot at idle. Wire up the heater static or turn off closed-loop at low revs.

If you aren't getting any response with a warm engine and elevated revs, then consider either wiring or a dead sensor.

 

OK Damon will do thanks for the info. Will mess with it Tuesday. What is stoich for E85? 14.8 or what? Just need to know what to look for on the wideband display. Thanks again will go through your ignition timing at idle steps and see what happens.

 

Actually, that number is a calculated value whose original measurement has little to do with fuel type. The electrical signal at stoich will be the same, the software assumes you have gasoline. It will then display 14.7 even though your actual lbs. of air / lbs. of fuel is actually closer to 9.6.

If your wideband doesn't have an e85 setting, the just use gas numbers. No harm.

Do you have a narrowband? If you only have a wideband and your closed-loop is doing that, then I suspect the wiring between the wideband and the ems.

 

Yeah I only have wideband. But I think it may be wired up to duplicate narrowband where it goes into the harness for the ECM. I thought I swapped it around but I will have to take it apart and double check... But theoretically I should be able to turn the setting for sensor type to Bosch and have it work correct? Because I have a bosch sensor. Problem could also be that the wiring goes from the sensor to the PLX control box, then to the EMS, that module could be interfering as well, but I suspect the wiring moreso.

So running E85 I need to be aiming for the same AFR's that I am achieving now with gasoline? Like 10.5:1 at WOT near redline? And 14.8:1 at idle and light cruise? My idea is to just mathematically adjust up my current fuel cell values by 30% across the entire rpm range for the lowest vacuum. Then do the same for say my 15-16 psi of boost cells, then just hit alt L and interpolate the entire map to increase fuel by 30%? Or I guess I could just highlight the entire map and increase it until the numbers reach 30% higher than they were. Or perhaps I will go to 35% higher values to have a safety zone and tune from rich to lean. What do you think?

Thanks again!

 

I will have to review the e6X, but you should be able to do that.

Check the afr in the software. It should read out something plausible. If not, then the wiring could have issues. Call me if you have this issue and we can talk.

The actual afr you use for a motor is never pre-conceived. You can use tuning processes to find the right afr. In general, you can use leaner afr with e85 compared with pump gas.

You won't be able to just apply a global map correction without retuning. To start, you can just apply a global correction to get you close, then tune it after that.

Realize e85 has different atomization characteristics which means the motor will require different corrections than gas. Keep your mind open and give the motor what it is telling you it needs, not what you think it needs.

 

Yeah I just wanted to get it close with the map interpolation. I will definately tune further after that. Yeah the e6x definately does interpolation. Thanks for the tips. And yes the mv redout at the gauge page is consistent with the digital plx readout as far as afr.

 

Best Advice EVER!! Each engine is different. Listening to what your engine is saying is the best way to know what it needs!!

On a sidenote, Damon do you know where a loaded dyno exists in colorado? I heard there is one up near loveland but that it caters to strictly German makes. 02.gif

 

slap a BMW logo on your car and get a dyno run ;-)

 

the wealth of info these last couple days are interesting...especially about e85

 

I love this thread! smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

So still haven't messed with the tib yet but was wondering if driving to the station that sells e85 (about 15 miles away), with my roughly calculated map and filling up would be a good or bad idea lol. Of course I would have the laptop in the car to make any needed drivability adjustments but do you think I could get it home? I am confident I could. Otherwise I will have to run back and forth a couple times with my gas can (only 2.5 gallons).

Just wondering if there is anything that could surprise me when using e85?

Also, how much extra power can be roughly extracted by using e85? I mean could I add a few pounds of boost? Or simply add timing at my current boost level? I'm thinking maybe 20-30 hp can be additionally gained by running e85, but of course I am inexperienced in this area so am really just pulling numbers out my a**. Of course my fuel economy will go down roughly 30%, bringing my average to less than 15 more than likely cool.gif . Thats mostly because I only drive the car for fun thus am beating it up when I do so. It's what I built it for so it's what I use it for. Besides even with the 30% increase in fuel consumption I'm sure it still equates to less than $4 a gallon, a lot better than $9 that 100 octane costs, ouch!

Thanks again.