Hey everybody!!!

Sorry for not posting for about a year, the tibby has been kinda sitting mostly. Just read a post that I added in february of last year mentioning that I had 86k on the car, now I think it is only up to 88. Only 2,000 miles in a year!

Recently I had some repairs to make, the OBX mani finally cracked, plus, one of the turbo mounting bolts was completely gone, and another was backed out 1/4". So I re-welded the manifold, installed a new turbo gasket with flange bolts that I tack-welded directly to the turbine housing to prevent them from backing out but still allow me to break them free when dis-assembly is neccessary. Also I finally put on a turbo bag which really does seem to help quite a lot with the heat aspect of things, I may have picked up a few ponies from keeping the exhaust gas hotter and thus scavenging the cylinders better. Keeping the heat down has helped my intake temps too as my boost pipe after the intercooler to the throttle body isn't as heat soaked.

Also the starter just took a dump on me as well. It stopped fully engaging in the flywheel teeth so it would skip and hop along while it tried to fire up the car, sounded horrible but incredibly the Fidanza's ring gear has very little damage which makes me happy since I don't want to be taking the trans out any time soon. I thought at first it might have been because of the 05 trans pushing the starter farther away from the flywheel the way it mounts, but I just confirmed that the starter is the same from 97 all the way to 06 for the 2.0L so that can't be it. So I'm going to get a new starter tomorrow and hopefully that repairs the issue. This one has been through hell anyway with all the cranking I've done during tuning and repairs so I'm quite confident a new starter will be sufficient. If not it must be excessive voltage drop in the power wire coming from the battery in the trunk, but I don't know why that would cause it to spin at full speed just not engage in the flywheel, that should cause it to engage in the flywheel just turn the engine very slowly or not at all.

I am still running 15 psi with the GT3071 and just advanced the timing another 2 degrees in the 12-16 psi range with no detonation result that I could hear or that the turboXS knocklite I installed could detect so keeping my fingers crossed. The car loved the extra timing and I wanted to try to cool the exaust down a bit being that it gets REALLY hot (white sometimes if I really beat the sh!t out of it at night).

I think on stock compression and internals that 300 whp would be the detonation/knock limit of the engine unless you were using water/meth injection or high octane fuel all the time. I have really been wanting to start fueling up with E85 and tinkering with the tune to see if I can add a bit of boost with it. There is a station that sells it about 12 miles from my house so it wouldn't be too inconvenient.

Oh I also finally installed the -6an lines for my coolant feed to the turbo from my -4an lines that were waaayyy too small (1/8" ID vs. 5/16" ID of the -6). I think this will help greatly in keeping the turbo cooler as that is more than double the diameter for coolant to flow, and the same ID if not a bit bigger than the throttle body coolant feed nipples that I am running my coolant from.

I also re-located my battery to the truck to free up some space under the hood and get some weight in the ass end.

On to the traction and transmission issues. I still have a factory trans with a factory diff. The trans currently in the car came out of an 05 tiburon with something like 50k on it. I blame the drag strip for both of my transmission failures. One I completly grenaded and the other 3rd gear blew apart. I was at the track with my drag radials on about to race a trans am. So I did a good 10 second burnout in 2nd gear at about 6500 rpm. The radials were hot as hell and very sticky. I wanted to win the race badly to show up the american muscle and get some respect for Hyundai ya know? So anyway I took off and of course spun through first babying it. Shifted to second and tapped redline instantly. Confirmed I did in fact have it in gear and still smacked the limiter. Proceeded to pull to the side of the track and stop as instructed to do when you break so you don't track fluid down the entire length of the track. Glad I did because gear oil was pouring out everywhere! Turns out the differential blew apart, bent the spider gear shaft and snapped the head the steering gear is machined to clear off. I also stripped the pinion and ring gear since the trans case split LOL.

Sorry for getting off topic and story-telling there... As for traction, I really have none at all in first or second, spinning at the beginning of 3rd as well. And I am running BFGoodrich KDW2 225/45/16's so there is some good wide rubber on the road. It's fun to smack it in 2nd gear at about 40 mph and just tap the limiter and open wastegate like crazy as the car desperately tries to get a grip LOL. The torque steer of the FWD and open diff is also very fun to me, keeps you busy when your at WOT and just makes driving the car that much more of an adrenaline rush. I am probably going to put the Quaife in sometime this spring or summer when I finally bight the bullet and spend the $1150. But when I do I would like to get another trans with low miles, rebuild it with all new synchros at the least (maybe bearings but those usually hold up quite well) and press the gears off to get them shot peened and cryo treated. I think that is about the best we in the States can do as far as beefing up the trans goes. Hopefully once I do that I can pull some 1.8 or 1.7 60 foots at the track and dip into the 11's for a change!

I'm also really considering a KOYO radiator. My coolant temps are steady at 200-210 and the outside temp here is only about 40 degrees farenheight. What should my coolant temp be?? 180? 190? I can't see it being ok to run at 205-210 all the time! My FAL fan is running constantly. I am going to wire the second fan that is meant only to run during A/C operation to run whenever the FAL runs. I'm tossing around the idea of just getting a beefy aluminum Honda sized rad to get more room in front of the turbo. Just put the Honda rad on the drivers side and leave the turbo more open. I think there is more core area in a smaller but much thicker radiator like the KOYO Honda rad. The massive KOYO made for our cars might be overkill and I might run into turbo fitment issues so... Any opinions of whether you guys think I would be better off with the Honda KOYO or the Hyundai KOYO are much appriciated as this is something I would like to take care of in the near future, along with an oil cooler. Thinking of which if I got the Honda sized rad that would leave space for an oil cooler just in front of the turbo. I am going to be removing my A/C system so I could get it where the condensor was to keep it from the turbo heat.

I really want to do a Pyrometer as well. I found one that goes to 1200*C which equates to 2200*F which is more than capable of reading the highest exhaust temps I can produce (hopefully, otherwise I've been damaging things!). But I was wondering where to weld the probe bung in? You said pre-turbine, can you explain why Enthalpy? You said to put it as close to the head as possible but putting it in a single cylinder runner will only give you the temp for that cylinder not all of them! So I think I will weld it in where I put my extension on the collector area, as close to the merge of the 4 pipes as I can get it. I am only concerned because this is where my wastegate is integrated as well, so would it be a bad spot for the pyrometer or no? It's the best spot I have really, unless I can put it in the downpipe right after the turbine but you said pre-turbine so... Help me out here please.

Anyway enough of my rambling, hope you enjoyed the post, feel free to ask questions and post opinions as I will be checking the forum more often now!

Just looked at the installation instructions PDF for the Stewart Warner sending unit (I have all Stewart Warner gauges so it has to match, therefore this is the gauge and sending unit I will be going with). They recommend placing the temperature probe AFTER any turbochargers. NOT before, please enlighten me, thanks. That would also make installation much easier as I would'nt have to remove the damn turbo and exaust mani AGAIN...

 

long time no see or hear...contacted you a few times last year, but no reply...

Im glad to see your still having fun with the tiburon

 

I don't understand why manufacturers recommend placing a probe after the turbine. That makes no sense to me as by the time the EGT probe reads the exhaust gas it would've cooled down several hundred degrees making the reading inaccurate.
From speaking with pro racers who have an EGT probe just outside of each exhaust port, they recommend at the bare minimum placing a probe just outside of the leanest cylinder on an engine. I think with a stock intake manifold that turns out to be cylinder 3?
As for spinning at the track you should try the Hoosier drag radials. They have a radial sidewall but the traction surface is all slick. They are not approved for street use, however they are DOT certified because of the radial sidewall. Pretty sneaky if you ask me. I have a set and LOVE THEM.
As for your coolant temps your right around in the correct area. The turbine heats up the coolant a lot so its damn near impossible to maintain the temps you got when you were stock. I'd recommend picking up a low temp thermostat and rigging up your secondary fan to be on when your primary comes on so your cooling the whole rad not just the drivers side. wink1.gif

 

So 210 is an ok temp? I am going to wire in my secondary fan that normally operates only with a/c to run whenever the FAL runs like I mentioned earlier. Hopefully my fans aren't running ALL the time.

I really don't like the idea of EGT'ing a single cylinder. Would it be that much worse to put it in the collector area where the wastegate is integrated? I mean put the probe in the middle of the collector but the gate piping comes off the front of the collector. When I drive it hard that area is always glowing more intensly than the rest of the manifold (other than the turbine). So it should be close to as hot as it would be. I have the Airram IM and headwork so dunno which cylinder is the leanest, I think the back of the valves were black on all cylinders except for 2 or 3 (which were a light brown, indicating a leaner cylinder correct?) but I can't remember now damnit.

As for traction, I don't dislike the BFGoodrich Drag Radials, I just dislike my transmissions for breaking. I'm not gonna run at the track again with an open diff unless I get trailered there. Once I get the Quaife I'm sure traction will be much less of an issue, but thanks for the tire reccommendation.

And sorry about the no replies, but I haven't gotten on the forum in about 11 months. Figured by now it was too late to send something. Oh and congrats on COTM mwood!

 

It's glowing brighter at the collector because the runners have at least SOME cooling air around them, and the collector is where they all blow. If it's a question of post-turbine or pre-turbine, the collector gets my vote. It may (?) be easier to put it on #3 depending on your setup (time for PHOTOS! )

 

I'm with you on the collector area, just rather get a mean (average) temp of all the cylinders before the turbine than just the temp of 1 cylinder. Let my try inserting a pic:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-15210417.jpg

That works, here are some more pics, thanks to the Droid! Thing has great picture quailty (5 megapixels):

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-20112616.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-20112812.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-20112827.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-20112840.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-20112538.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-20112639.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-20112656.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-20112710.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-20112721.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-20112738.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-20112559.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...01-14163640.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon.../Turbo009-1.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...06/Turbo018.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/tdon...06/Turbo001.jpg

There are some pics!!! LOL. You can see in the pics of the drivers side of the manifold where the collector extension I welded in is. Basically I would put the probe right there as high up as I could without hitting the collector merge pipes inside the manifold. You can also see that the gate piping is the same diameter as the length of the extension. I don't think that would be an issue with EGT though right? I mean the fact that at full boost the exhaust is flowing right out the gate as well as down to the turbine?

 

Most aftermarket manifolds have the EGT at the collector, mainly because its the easiest place to put it that won't cause the manifold to crack. My maintec has it there for now, but I plan on moving it to cylinder 3. If you measure the cylinder that typically gets the least amount of air and fuel then that's a good indicator of how well the overall engine is running. Maybe its cylinder 1 because that's at the end of the fuel rail. I'll have to do more research.

 

Hey Tyler! Long time no see! Good to see you are back. wink1.gif Hopefully my comments are helpful.

Starter -
Yes, you are right in not suspecting excessive voltage drop across the power wire to the starter. Excessive voltage drop would have the same symptom as a dead battery, which is complete engagement of the starter with insufficient driving power of the electric motor. Insufficient engagement with full cranking torque out of the electric motor screams a new starter to me.

When tuning a motor, I usually am sensitive to overheating the starter. I don't crank for more than 10 seconds at a time, letting it cool for a minute inbetween.

Replace the starter. That should fix it.

Timing -
As we probably discussed, advancing the timing while listening to JUST knock without a dyno baseline is a bad idea. Even if you aren't detonating, you can wind up advancing the timing beyond where it needs to be, which doesn't yield any further power output and heats things up (like your coolant!!!) quite a bit. In addition, advancing the timing like that can make you more detonation-prone. If you didn't get detonation while you were tuning, that doesn't mean you won't another time. A bad batch of gas or a longer boosted run can be enough to put you into detonation. Excessive ignition advance obviously makes this problem worse.

EGT -
Yes, absolutely put the probe before the turbo! The previous poster pretty much nailed why. The critical temps are at the exhaust valve and turbine INLET. The turbine removes heat. That's its job. It uses that energy to drive the compressor.

The trick is not interrupting the flow too much. If you can only do it on once cylinder, do it on the hottest. You can use those hand-held laser temp sensors to figure out which is the hottest. Once again, try not to impede the flow too much in the cylinder or you will richen up the AFR on that cylinder and defeat the purpose of measuring EGT.

Get the max turbine temp from your turbo maker and observe it. If your EGT is excessive, don't blindly advance the timing. The best way to deal with high EGT is:
-Set the timing to MBT and richen the mixture until the EGT is under control. Reset the timing as you richen the mixture, as timing requirements are in part dependant on AFR.
-Obviously, lowering the boost helps too.
-Using higher octane fuels with more timing definitely helps too!
-Rebuilding with more detonation protection and lower compression also helps
-Reduce your VE using more stock-ish cams and less aggressive cam timing.

Coolant Temps -
200-210 isn't what I would consider dangerous. Many thermostats are set in that range, just shy of water's sea level pressure boiling point. Tommy's certainly is, and he has driven through the desert on a modified turbo engine that way many times! Even if you go north of 212, realize the pressure in the system raises the boiling point. That's why manufacturers do that. When modifying an engine, running lower coolant temps can be a good idea. Getting a lower thermostat is a great way to help, assuming your radiator can keep up with the demand. So I would recommend the lower tstat and ONLY get the koyo if the temps are still elevated.

I'm a fan of only fixing what's broken. Don't get the radiator unless you know it's necessary.

Oil Temps -
I'm only a fan of only fixing things if there is a problem. Don't put in an oil cooler if there isn't a problem. Measure the oil temps. Give yourself 20 degrees shy of the absolute max. If the temps on a warm day go north of 20 degrees shy of the max, then do something about it.

Of course, how you are driving has a big impact on oil temps. Track cars need to test it at the track. Street cars need to be flogged. The idea is to reproduce the worst-case scenario.

If you do need a cooler, I recommend springing for an oil-water one. Many Toyotas have them from the factory, so you can find decent coolers in the junk yard for cheap. The reason I recommend this is it helps bring your oil temps UP quicker during warm up, and helps keep them from getting too hot under boost.

OOPS!!!!!

I forgot to mention something. Wrapping pipe that gets really hot like that is a great way to control heat, but it tends to make the pipe fatigue and crack easier. The reason is the wrap makes certain spots cooler than others as it touches some spots of the pipe and not others. This creates hot spots and internal stress. The cooling / heating cycles fatigues the metal if the pipe walls are too thin.

There are two solutions to this:
-Make your header out of much thicker pipe. Support the turbo carefully.
-Use heat shields that are sheet metal. OEMs do this all the time. You can polish them and etch logos in them if you want something more blingy.

For the metal fatigue reason, I usually recommend sheet metal heat shields for any exhaust component.

 

The Master D-Man speaks!! lol

 

Unless you do the fab. yourself a new manifold every few years might be close to the cost of a set of heat shields w/ logos & whatnot.

I don't think you need to worry about your piping, or putting the EGT probe at the collector as long as it doesn't block the flow much.