turbo vs supercharger
09-22-2002, 05:23 AM
#31
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Idid state that i did not have as manyproblems as other people however the problems i did have were as follows
It wasnt the bhp gain that was the problem more the huge flat spot and i mean huge, where the programming in the chip actually retarded yes retarded the fuel as the turbo kicked in, so much so that my block would have melted it was running so hot.
Then further up the range it was so over fueled that the backfires where horendous. so yeh that bhp gain was great for about 1000 rpm the rest crap.
There was piping missing from the intercoller, it just wasnt there si i had to have it made.
Finally the new idler for the timing belt fouled on the block when it was fitted so i had to have a spacer made and when it did fit it was so baddly shaped it shredded a timing belt(caught it just in time) so i had to have that machined.
oh and the ends to the oil feed pipes were 180deg out so the had to be heated and worked around to the right posn.
All this resulted in my fitting bill going up by over £300. So the kit didnt give quite what was advertised did it?
And to top it off when i sent an email enquiring about the makeup of the turbo, compressoer wheel etc all i got back was if you want an upgrade we can do that for you. Very helpfull!!!
It wasnt the bhp gain that was the problem more the huge flat spot and i mean huge, where the programming in the chip actually retarded yes retarded the fuel as the turbo kicked in, so much so that my block would have melted it was running so hot.
Then further up the range it was so over fueled that the backfires where horendous. so yeh that bhp gain was great for about 1000 rpm the rest crap.
There was piping missing from the intercoller, it just wasnt there si i had to have it made.
Finally the new idler for the timing belt fouled on the block when it was fitted so i had to have a spacer made and when it did fit it was so baddly shaped it shredded a timing belt(caught it just in time) so i had to have that machined.
oh and the ends to the oil feed pipes were 180deg out so the had to be heated and worked around to the right posn.
All this resulted in my fitting bill going up by over £300. So the kit didnt give quite what was advertised did it?
And to top it off when i sent an email enquiring about the makeup of the turbo, compressoer wheel etc all i got back was if you want an upgrade we can do that for you. Very helpfull!!!
09-23-2002, 04:54 AM
#35
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Not that it matters, but I would generally have to support Random on this.
Firstly, you cannot EVER say that horsepower figures at the tires are in any way able to be ACCURATELY extrapolated to engine output. Period. If you want to argue this fact, then you're sorely confused and will suddenly lose another few notches in my respect scale... Not that my respect matters much to anyone, but argument of this point is moot. You can't do it, end of story.
Secondly, you cannot expect that the US market ISN'T going to bitch when you post 180 horsepower figures and A: it's unobtainable with US OBD2-regulated hardware and B: it's unobtainable with US gasoline. Fucking duh, if you can't make that power in the US market, don't sell us numbers for it. It's fine and dandy if the rest of the world agrees with your numbers because their OEM equipment and fuel options are identical to yours -- but OURS is not. It's not hard to figure out...
Third and finally, I too have more than once suggested the Alpine kit as a good "base" kit to get started with. But just like Tony, I have also routinely beat into people NOT to expect power out of the Alpine setup until they replace certain key elements... First off, ripping out the Unichip, replacing the 5th injector with four 440cc injectors and an S-AFC device, and adding an MSD DIS2 unit with the optional BTM (boost timing module) AND without that abysmal head spacer they use.
With that outline, we've got a person here who made 220WHP on a 1.8L motor on 12psi.
Makes a great little place to start; add another $1000 to make up for all the shit tuning that needs to be replaced in the Alpine kit and you've got a great dependable daily boosted driver.
If you guys could nail down the Unichip problems on North American vehichles, I'm sure your power would be a lot better. But for right now, your Unichip programming bites bigtime, and has been made only worse by the horrible stories of technical support I continually hear.
Tell you the truth, I'd rather build my own. I'm only here to help the n00bs who want the REAL low-down, and the real low-down is, Alpine has a lot to be desired in the North American market. Sorry... frown
Firstly, you cannot EVER say that horsepower figures at the tires are in any way able to be ACCURATELY extrapolated to engine output. Period. If you want to argue this fact, then you're sorely confused and will suddenly lose another few notches in my respect scale... Not that my respect matters much to anyone, but argument of this point is moot. You can't do it, end of story.
Secondly, you cannot expect that the US market ISN'T going to bitch when you post 180 horsepower figures and A: it's unobtainable with US OBD2-regulated hardware and B: it's unobtainable with US gasoline. Fucking duh, if you can't make that power in the US market, don't sell us numbers for it. It's fine and dandy if the rest of the world agrees with your numbers because their OEM equipment and fuel options are identical to yours -- but OURS is not. It's not hard to figure out...
Third and finally, I too have more than once suggested the Alpine kit as a good "base" kit to get started with. But just like Tony, I have also routinely beat into people NOT to expect power out of the Alpine setup until they replace certain key elements... First off, ripping out the Unichip, replacing the 5th injector with four 440cc injectors and an S-AFC device, and adding an MSD DIS2 unit with the optional BTM (boost timing module) AND without that abysmal head spacer they use.
With that outline, we've got a person here who made 220WHP on a 1.8L motor on 12psi.
Makes a great little place to start; add another $1000 to make up for all the shit tuning that needs to be replaced in the Alpine kit and you've got a great dependable daily boosted driver.
If you guys could nail down the Unichip problems on North American vehichles, I'm sure your power would be a lot better. But for right now, your Unichip programming bites bigtime, and has been made only worse by the horrible stories of technical support I continually hear.
Tell you the truth, I'd rather build my own. I'm only here to help the n00bs who want the REAL low-down, and the real low-down is, Alpine has a lot to be desired in the North American market. Sorry... frown
09-24-2002, 01:21 AM
#39
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Vehicle: 2008 Toyota Prius 2006 Suzuki SV650S
MechaniX-
I don't know the color of the person's car. He just e-mailed me after finding my car on on the web.
lantraluvr-
It might not have been 100% necessary, but I respect him for it. E-mail Ballrub with questions, let's try to keep this thread on topic.
I don't know the color of the person's car. He just e-mailed me after finding my car on on the web.
lantraluvr-
It might not have been 100% necessary, but I respect him for it. E-mail Ballrub with questions, let's try to keep this thread on topic.
09-24-2002, 02:37 AM
#40
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I want my say tongue.gif
I understand Alpine has had alot of problems with their S/C and Turbo kits. But now that they have setup a US Rep and they are looking into CARB certification they seem to want to work things out better with their POTENTIAL US customers.
I feel it was very professional of ballrub to list his background so we know he is not some joes schmoe rice boy alpine picked. Please do not attack him on that.
Ballrub. In the current condition of the S/C and Turbo kit from alpine. We will not recoomend it to our fellow hyundai community. Its just to much of a hassle.
Your ideas of reliability and affordable sound good. But not even in other markets have we seen this accomplished well. And we will never see t accomplished with a 5th injector.
Instead of accusing those of bad mouthing the kits and complaining about false horsepower and just petty bickering. You should listen to our complaints and fix the problems. Red and Random are two of many of the most respected people on this forum. You need to be listening to them. You want them on your good side. With their help your kit can offer the reliability and affordability you sought after and fit into the parameters of what we need to feel this is a safe and quality kit to purchase.
Random - I know you have both kits, and both are not working the way they should. And I know alpine has been rather slow on the uptake in fixing things. And I would be furious as well.
Let give ballrub a chance (those does not sound right, you need a professional name here ballrub)
Hes just started wokring with alpine. Their is obviously alot of confusion, between everyones story.
Lets try to get things straigthen out, and give alpine another chance now that we have a US rep. things should move along quicker and smoother. Cause if not, its going to be very hard for alpine to sell these kits.
I understand Alpine has had alot of problems with their S/C and Turbo kits. But now that they have setup a US Rep and they are looking into CARB certification they seem to want to work things out better with their POTENTIAL US customers.
I feel it was very professional of ballrub to list his background so we know he is not some joes schmoe rice boy alpine picked. Please do not attack him on that.
Ballrub. In the current condition of the S/C and Turbo kit from alpine. We will not recoomend it to our fellow hyundai community. Its just to much of a hassle.
Your ideas of reliability and affordable sound good. But not even in other markets have we seen this accomplished well. And we will never see t accomplished with a 5th injector.
Instead of accusing those of bad mouthing the kits and complaining about false horsepower and just petty bickering. You should listen to our complaints and fix the problems. Red and Random are two of many of the most respected people on this forum. You need to be listening to them. You want them on your good side. With their help your kit can offer the reliability and affordability you sought after and fit into the parameters of what we need to feel this is a safe and quality kit to purchase.
Random - I know you have both kits, and both are not working the way they should. And I know alpine has been rather slow on the uptake in fixing things. And I would be furious as well.
Let give ballrub a chance (those does not sound right, you need a professional name here ballrub)
Hes just started wokring with alpine. Their is obviously alot of confusion, between everyones story.
Lets try to get things straigthen out, and give alpine another chance now that we have a US rep. things should move along quicker and smoother. Cause if not, its going to be very hard for alpine to sell these kits.