Turbo & Supercharge (Forced Induction) Posts regarding Turbochargers, Superchargers and any other method for Forced Induction.

Help me please!!! n/a or forced induction

Old Mar 31, 2005 | 10:03 PM
  #11  
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Bleh... well if you really don't like drag racing then toss the whole "12 second car" in the garbage. 350whp is way too much for autoX when you would need a larger turbo to make that kind of power.

I assume Auto-X competitions have classes like drag racing. I really like the Tib's chances in these competitons. IMO, you have two options. If I were you, I would spend two-thirds of what you want to spend on your car on the suspension. Power doesn't matter.

1. A light turbo setup, such as a small turbo from the T3 Family (T25, T3) that spools at low RPM since you really don't need too much power. Needs to be intercooled as you'll have it in high RPMs for an extended period of time. Tim's basic kit with an intercooler running 8PSI seems a great option.

2. An all-motor setup. If there are all-motor divisions in Auto-X, a Tib would dominate with 170whp and a beast suspension. Basically all the bolt-ons and some high-cams from Rick... maybe some higher comp pistons if you wanted to push the envelope.
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Old Mar 31, 2005 | 10:12 PM
  #12  
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QUOTE (hamhead)
I agree with OP on most points. I like to go more in depth. tongue.gif

The T3/T04E that Tim's Extreme Kit comes with is a very large T3, it could probably produce 400whp easily while still being well within its efficiency range. I don't see a need for a bigger turbo there, it has plenty of beefiness to it.


With this turbo he will have a pretty big lag, I would strongly suggest getting a disko potato turbo. remember he wants to auto-x, so he cannot have lag.

QUOTE
Axles I'm still iffy about. The Tib's axles look fairly decent, and I've only heard of one axle breaking, which could be from it being an old drivetrain thats not well-suited to high power. I think anything well cared for and under 60k miles on the drivetrain should be able to handle most of what you throw at it as long as you don't rip on it too often.


Agree, but I still wouldn't push it too hard with stock axles.

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LSD is a given. With traction being such as issue, and that the stock differential is weak, I'll give ya this. So tack on another $800ish to Tim's Extreme Kit (We're now @ $4000)


More like $1000 for LSD. If you buy one I'd go with the best you can get since the difference in price won't be that big.

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Pistons and rods are once again, a given. Wiseco for pistons and Pauter for rods should drive the price up.. although once again if the rods are in decent shape they should be like the axles. Able to take a beating every once in a while as a weekend track warrior for a few passes. If you managed to drop in a Beta with low mileage like mine, they should be okey dokey. I'll give half of what the rods cost (We're now @ $5400ish).


Plus install. And even if he'll be doing it himself he will need to replace studs, bearings, etc. Another $200 at least.

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Haltec may be a tad extreme if your only running 350whp. An SMT-6 should be able to handle it fine if tuned correctly. A few hours on the dyno ($250ish) plus the cost brings us to $6000 dollars (getting expensive?).


Tim's kit comes with injectors so thats out the window. If you want to go cheapo, porting the stock TB and IM should still yield good gains, and is free if you have a die grinder and a little bit of time and finesse. I love doing my own port work. You could also have fun with the IM ports and the exhaust ports as well. I love those little tools. Still around $6000.


Haltech will be a must because with SMT6 the higest you can do is 440cc injectors, for 350whp you will need at least 550s. You will run mad rich at idle with 550s. And Tim's kit come with 340cc injectors I believe, so either way they will have to be replaced.

I believe guys in Korea had problems with stock IM because it was restriction too much air. So, I would highly suggest airram. TB will be a must because you can only bore stock TB to 58mm and that's way too small for 350whp.

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Now for all the fun that a turbo brings out. You will need to monitor things very closely... N/A is much more forgiving when it comes to errors. And for miscellaneous parts, $7000 total after you go buy some slicks.


Also since he cannot deal with lag because of auto-x I would highly suggest Tim's equal length manifold, and also get it Jet Hot coated. It would help with lag a lot.

add exhaust, ext. WG, plugs, oil change, cat, gauges, and I'm sure there is more.

Total would be well over $7000 man. Definitely somewhere in $9000 range.
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QUOTE
What the hell, I'll have fun and do a $6500 N/A build. Intake stretch comes first, I hate the untunability of ITBs so thats out of the question. Grabbing an AEM CAI is a decent beginning, along with once again doing your own port work on the TB/IM and everywhere else. Get the exhaust stretch done. Basic bolt-ons would have you around 160whp for $1000 if spent correctly. Then you get into those nice Hi-Comp pistons and Hi-Cams. I think the Haltec comes into play here, even though your sitting at less HP than with the turbocharger, more tuning is involved after bumping up compression and the camshafts. $4000 for probably 180 to the wheels. Then you buy your good old friend the direct-port nitrous (must be safe... progressive setup, bottle warmer, tuning, window switch, and all the goodies). Once again probably around $5600 and then you buy some slicks.


I would not waste money on pistons if you gonna shot 90-100shot nitrous man. Too much for stock engine and high compression.


Now a word from me about your ideas man. If you going to go with F/I and go auto-xing you will be in a category with some pshyco cars. Going from NA autox to FI is a huge difference. I'd suggest you to stay NA if autox is your thing.
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Old Apr 1, 2005 | 02:48 AM
  #13  
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Sorry dude, I miss the part about a 12 second car and only using 1st and 2nd gear.

I know i'm going to get flamed for this, but I'll state the truth anyway.

If you plan on autocrosssing, don't get a tiby. That simple. In stock class, in doesn't have the suspension geometry, power or weight distribution to make it competitive. In the modified classes, it doesn't matter how much $$$ you throw at the car, someone else is going to throw more $ at a better car and still beat you. Simply put, handling and cornering are not the Tiburon's strengths compared to other cars in it's SCCA class.

If you want to autocross and are just doing it for fun/exposure, I would reccomend no more than 200-250 WHP and I would reccomend a supercharger over a turbo or N/A setup. The supercharger would give you the instant boost/throttle response over a turbo, and it would also give you much more torque down low, making gear selection much more flexable. Your only option I know of is the Alpine kit. It's down on power (I think not quite 170 WHP) so would require some modifications to reach the 200-250 WHP mark, but in theory it's doable. You'd have to invest in some poly bushings, poly engine mounts, thicker front/rear swaybars and some kind of coilover suspension and of course, a LSD.

A turbo setup is doable for under $7000, assuming you shop wisely and dont always buy new. Turbo's, manifolds, ECU's, intercoolers, etc regularly go up on ebay and the various classified forums. You'd have to buy new when it comes to pistons, rods, cams, and the LSD, but nearly everything else would be available used.

Since we're talking about less power, a small turbo built to top out at 250 WHP would give very quick response (next to no lag), but the power curve would not be as linear as a supercharger would. The supercharger would give you more throttle control which you would need for autocrossing.
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Old Apr 1, 2005 | 07:17 AM
  #14  
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You've gopt to be joking about the tibby not being good at auto-x....i only have about 140whp and in the last event i attended i beat an EVO-8 and a fiberglass cobra (no im not in the novice class so it wasnt inexperienced drivers) so you are waaay wrong on that point..tibbys have short gears, they are light, and with very little mods you can fit 245 slicks on her no problem...

Someone else has to be with me on this....Flame Random

does anyone know of a better supercharger than alpine because i've heard a lot of bad things about their products..
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Old Apr 1, 2005 | 10:12 AM
  #15  
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QUOTE (IJSTBRNDU)
You've gopt to be joking about the tibby not being good at auto-x....i only have about 140whp and in the last event i attended i beat an EVO-8 and a fiberglass cobra (no im not in the novice class so it wasnt inexperienced drivers) so you are waaay wrong on that point..


Doesn't matter man, some folks just can't damn drive, and some folks have off days.

Guess what? I street raced the other night, against a 2005 Viper and WON!!! Yup, I WON in my Tiburon. Oh, the other guy didn't know we were racing, and it was only to 45MPH, but I beat him by 14 car lengths.

eyeroll.gif

Any Given Sunday. Sound familiar? Anything on the planet can beat anything else, given the right conditions.

No one said you were wrong, but I will. Wrong.

QUOTE
Someone else has to be with me on this....Flame Random


Read the forum rules, flames are not allowed.

QUOTE
does anyone know of a better supercharger than alpine because i've heard a lot of bad things about their products..


Nope. And the one out there with 10K invested in the engine almost hit 200 HP. 199.8WHP.
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Old Apr 1, 2005 | 03:54 PM
  #16  
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For its price, the Tibby would be a great auto-Xer. For the competition it would face in major shows in its class, it would probably get owned.
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Old Apr 1, 2005 | 04:50 PM
  #17  
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Ive done auto x and I think it did very good, mostly vets there and beat a few, the Evo beat most of the corvettes though
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Old Apr 1, 2005 | 05:44 PM
  #18  
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Yea...ok off day i doubt it cuz in auto-x you get 8 runs and yea your bound to screw up once or twice but overall your best time counts its not likely to screw up all 8 runs...yes some people are bad drivers but i have only done 3 events and am still a novice, my skills are minimal in my view, but i race in the stock class just to race against seasoned drivers

Also...with the alpine system does anyone know how many psi it puts out...8max? would i be able to get a pulley made to up the boost to 12psi...or am i dreaming...i dont know much about superchargers..obviously
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Old Apr 2, 2005 | 10:19 AM
  #19  
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^^^
Talk to Xorro about that, she got a smaller pulley put on, water injection, tons of stuff, and got 199.8 HP to the wheels.
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Old Apr 2, 2005 | 12:22 PM
  #20  
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The Alpine supercharger unit is like trying to get power out of a small T25 turbo with no intercooler. No matter what you do, your not going to get any power out of it, its just too small and badly designed of a unit.

But yes, a smaller pulley does create more boost on a supercharger.

The GK versioned ones have been able to get 15PSI out of the Alpine, but thats maxing it out @ about 310WHP. The GK as a car is better suited for a supercharger, though, and I believe their unit is better designed. Its insane they aren't intercooling it though, dumb GK owners.
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