Rundown on "The Plan".
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The rally team doesn't really need low-end torque for the same reason that a drag-racer doesn't.... Once you're in the car and moving (and racing) you keep the revs about 3K. If you're racing and you're below 3K, you're inexperienced or you're going 10mph (either way in inconducive for racing) How often do you see a Rally car keep the tires spinning at less than 15mph? (3K in 1st gear)
Low-end torque really only matters for a daily driver. Drag racing? You rev to 3K to launch anyway, maybe a lot more if you're running slicks. Autocrossing? Same thing -- if you're running at less than 3K, it's because you're inexperienced. (or maybe you're driving a huge V8 that redlines at 5K)
All of that, and also the fact that superchargers historically SUCK on the BETA motors. I think Cheuk was telling us on FXTreme that the most powerful SC'd Tiburon he knows of gets about another 20 horsepower more than the most powerful N/A Tiburon he knows of. We're talking only right above 200HP at the tires, at best.
Turbo baby!
-Red-
Low-end torque really only matters for a daily driver. Drag racing? You rev to 3K to launch anyway, maybe a lot more if you're running slicks. Autocrossing? Same thing -- if you're running at less than 3K, it's because you're inexperienced. (or maybe you're driving a huge V8 that redlines at 5K)
All of that, and also the fact that superchargers historically SUCK on the BETA motors. I think Cheuk was telling us on FXTreme that the most powerful SC'd Tiburon he knows of gets about another 20 horsepower more than the most powerful N/A Tiburon he knows of. We're talking only right above 200HP at the tires, at best.
Turbo baby!
-Red-
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by BlueGT:
I think you should get 205/45 R17. Those will be closer in overall wheel diameter than 205/40 R17. Running smaller diameter will make your speedometer reading higher and your odometer will show higher mileage. Check www.c5-corvette.com/tirecalc.htm to compare the measurements. Also www.tirerack.com recommends 205/45 R17 for 2001-2002 Elantra.
[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: BlueGT ]
[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: BlueGT ]</div>
I've got the 205/40R17's on mine. Its only a .5" height difference than stock an its only a 2% cange. This means if you are going 100mph on the highway
your speedo will say 102.
I think you should get 205/45 R17. Those will be closer in overall wheel diameter than 205/40 R17. Running smaller diameter will make your speedometer reading higher and your odometer will show higher mileage. Check www.c5-corvette.com/tirecalc.htm to compare the measurements. Also www.tirerack.com recommends 205/45 R17 for 2001-2002 Elantra.
[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: BlueGT ]
[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: BlueGT ]</div>
I've got the 205/40R17's on mine. Its only a .5" height difference than stock an its only a 2% cange. This means if you are going 100mph on the highway
your speedo will say 102.
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These guys running turbos on the rally circuit are using small turbos. They have hardly any lag. Its not the fact of low end torque for SCCA it the throttle response. An extremely large turbo like say a garret T4 (I think) is too big for rally. Too much lag. You might as well run NA. Keep in mind people a large turbo wont finish its spool up till avbout 5000 RPM. Driving SCCA its almost impossible to stay above 4500 RPM except in long straight aways. (you've got to turn at some point, thus slow down.) I've been tought while going around a turn dont downshift through the turn only before the turn. Well if you'r coming off a long straight away and have your rpm at 6000rpm you cant downshift so you ill wind up below 4000 before your start the turn. Now since your turbo isnt at full boost you wont accellerate as fast as if you had a supercharger.
Of course this is the way I was tought and makes perfect sense. Every driver has there own method of road racing though.
Keep in mind while road racing most street circuits very rarely go above 70mph. hmmm isnt this out of range of 2nd and in the 5000rpm range of 3rd?
Turbo = ~5000rpm-redline
S/C = ~3000rpm-redline
Any questions?
Of course this is the way I was tought and makes perfect sense. Every driver has there own method of road racing though.
Keep in mind while road racing most street circuits very rarely go above 70mph. hmmm isnt this out of range of 2nd and in the 5000rpm range of 3rd?
Turbo = ~5000rpm-redline
S/C = ~3000rpm-redline
Any questions?
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From: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
Vehicle: 2008 Toyota Prius 2006 Suzuki SV650S
1: 205/40R17 Kuhmo Ecsta 712s $350
KAAZ LSD, $800
Clutch $450
Labor for Clutch&LSD $500
Alpine Turbo less UNICHIP $1500
Haltec E6K, Sensors, Install, Tuning $1500
440cc Injectors, $350
Fuel Pump $150
Custom Mandrel Bent 3" Exhaust w/Random Cat Con $600
Things you missed.
Blow Off Valve $120 to $200
Stronger Axles $500
Install for Turbo? $1200-$2000
Lower Compression pistions(also stronger) $600
Stronger Rods (As long as you are doing the pistions...) $600
KAAZ LSD, $800
Clutch $450
Labor for Clutch&LSD $500
Alpine Turbo less UNICHIP $1500
Haltec E6K, Sensors, Install, Tuning $1500
440cc Injectors, $350
Fuel Pump $150
Custom Mandrel Bent 3" Exhaust w/Random Cat Con $600
Things you missed.
Blow Off Valve $120 to $200
Stronger Axles $500
Install for Turbo? $1200-$2000
Lower Compression pistions(also stronger) $600
Stronger Rods (As long as you are doing the pistions...) $600
Thread Starter
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Yeah, 205/45R17. That's what I meant. I only plan on running 10psi max so I really shouldn't need new internals-yet. I can definitely install the turbo myself (no, really I can). BOV DEFINITELY! What kind do you reccomend? How bad are the axles really? I know that they break if you hook up but this thing will have to be babied in 1st gear and I'm not gonna run drag radials but I will get the axles if I ever (when I) up the boost and/or use DRs. BTW, who makes those axles? 
Lastly, Random didn't you say that you get 9psi by 2500rpm while using the spacer? I would think that the higher compression and Haltec (as far as optimizing timing and generally making everything work well together) should AT LEAST respond that quickly if not faster-ala VW turbos. I know that they use a tiny K03 for fast response but they also run 9.5:1 compression to enhance response time too. Thanks
Lastly, Random didn't you say that you get 9psi by 2500rpm while using the spacer? I would think that the higher compression and Haltec (as far as optimizing timing and generally making everything work well together) should AT LEAST respond that quickly if not faster-ala VW turbos. I know that they use a tiny K03 for fast response but they also run 9.5:1 compression to enhance response time too. Thanks
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Joined: May 2001
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From: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
Vehicle: 2008 Toyota Prius 2006 Suzuki SV650S
The new pistions are to lower the compression rather than the head spacer. My headspacer is slowly weeping oil into my coolant. NOT A GOOD THING!
For 10 PSI you are looking at 225 +/- 10 HP at stock compression levels, That was enough for OnPol to snap an axle. If you are going to be auto crossing, you will be putting similar stress on the axles between cornering/accleration loads.
The Axles are good to 325 HP and are being done by the Driveshaft shop.
the pistions/rods are just an "insurance" bet. the stock pistions limit is 250 or there abouts...by going with stronger pistions/rods you can eliminate that weak point and lower the compression to the point where you don't need the head spacer. A win/win senario.
For 10 PSI you are looking at 225 +/- 10 HP at stock compression levels, That was enough for OnPol to snap an axle. If you are going to be auto crossing, you will be putting similar stress on the axles between cornering/accleration loads.
The Axles are good to 325 HP and are being done by the Driveshaft shop.
the pistions/rods are just an "insurance" bet. the stock pistions limit is 250 or there abouts...by going with stronger pistions/rods you can eliminate that weak point and lower the compression to the point where you don't need the head spacer. A win/win senario.
Thread Starter
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I definitely agree on all points but I just don't have more cash on hand and I can't think of anything to cut unless you suppose I should get the axles instead of the KAAZ LSD? BTW didn't OnPol break that axle while using slicks? Anyhoo, I guess I'll have to keep it down to 225hp or less for a while- maybe 8psi?
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From: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
Vehicle: 2008 Toyota Prius 2006 Suzuki SV650S
Onpol was using slicks...and it was at a dragstrip, so hella traction. But...
There is nothing to say that only 200 Hp was needed to snap the axle. Or maybe just street tires and lots of cornering load....
When Onpol's axle snapped, it shreeded his differential. If you snap an axle autocrossing, your KAAZ LSD is going to break into 10,000 Pieces....
There is nothing to say that only 200 Hp was needed to snap the axle. Or maybe just street tires and lots of cornering load....
When Onpol's axle snapped, it shreeded his differential. If you snap an axle autocrossing, your KAAZ LSD is going to break into 10,000 Pieces....
Thread Starter
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Hella uncool aboot axle snappage! If you think I can actually get the turbo kit for 1500 then that should free up enough change for the axles which sound more and more like a good idea everyday, thank you for pointing that out! BTW, any downside to those axles?
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From: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
Vehicle: 2008 Toyota Prius 2006 Suzuki SV650S
They are a little heavier than the stock axles, but I'll take the strength and weight over 2 peice axles anyday.
The unichip is worth $500, so you should get that money off the price of the alpine turbo kit...but you will then need to spend $1500-$2000 for a HalTec EK6.
The unichip is worth $500, so you should get that money off the price of the alpine turbo kit...but you will then need to spend $1500-$2000 for a HalTec EK6.