XGODZX

http://www.mustangevolution.com/forum/f356/t309389/



I appreciate peoples opinions but prefer facts and supporting data.

Why would automotive companies invest billions to get engineers to put in a restrictive air box ?

I've done the K&N filter & CAI and the only increase was noise, ram air is minimal and unreliable so real hp gains are from forced induction.



Or do we start beliving in the "Vortec Cyclone " ?



"HOW MUCH WILL I GAIN? – Over the years we have had testimonials from customers who have seen horsepower gains of up to 31%. Our average customer gains between 5-12 horsepower"

http://www.vorteccyclone.com/boosthorsepower.html

WytchDctr

"Why would automotive companies invest billions to get engineers to put in a restrictive air box ?"



Answer: They don't. Billions on an airbox? really? A ton of money on the car overall... but not that much on the airbox. What do most customers want? LOW noise from the car, unless its a performance model. The intake in the XD was about 20 feet long with a huge box and another resonator somewhere else in it. My HD has a straight forward design with minimal bends etc. Do I think the XD gained a bit of umph from a new intake track, yes... and noise. The HD... still has the much better design in it with a filter I can clean. I cannot see much gain from replacing that setup What am I getting at? An intake helping that car really depends on the stock setup/design and how much performance the manufacturer sacrificed to keep the noise down with little care about hp output.



BTW stock for stock the HD did make more noise under throttle than the XD did. I think hyundai realized its buyers really didn't care about the extra growl and probably pulled off slightly better mpg numbers via less pumping loss and spent less on plastic with the new design.

Whatnot

lol WHS^^

XGODZX

"Really" I never stated "Billions on an airbox" The statement i made is to reflect that automotive companies do spend Billions in R&D to the likes of in at the lowest year of 2009 Toyota’s R&D spending was almost US$9 billion.

That is $200 million more than the second-placed company and works out at or a little over $1.1 million per hour.

From that study they said five of the top 20 global R&D spenders were automotive companies with Toyota ahead of General Motors fifth (previous year 2nd), Ford eighth (6th), Honda 16th (16th) and Volkswagen 17th (19th).

And in 2011 Volkswagen was reported the third largest automaker, yet it spent more than the two companies ahead of it, Toyota and General Motors.



So again why would automotive companies looking to beat their competitors risk an edge to put in a restrictive air box ?



The answer i don't think so..........

i8acobra

Unless you're talking about Mustang vs. Camaro, car makers don't compete with each other over 5 hp. A restrictive airbox is quieter than a non-restrictive one. Based on the fact that NVH is more of a competition than HP, I'd say most car makers spend their R&D making their airboxes MORE restrictive, not less.

WytchDctr

Edit: he beat me to it.. I could have sum-ed this entire post with "what he said"



You said "Why would automotive companies invest billions to get engineers to put in a restrictive air box?" Maybe you should have said



"Why would automotive companies invest billions, then get their engineers to put in a restrictive air box?" something along those lines. I got what you said, but the way I read it first was hilariously silly.



No one ever said they didn't invest tons of money in R&D, so grats on the googling the obvious. However, not all are after performance. An attempt to make an engine with less NVH has taken horsepower from many cars. Check out the Mazda 2.3 and that oil frothing dampener thing that spins with the crank... the 20 foot intake in my XD, the extra weight added to the 2.0 and higher BETA motors on the flywheel removing that would have made it quicker, the crazy exhaust setups that some cars have to make them quiet (again the XD and that stupid big muffler), hell remove those stupid engine covers that only add weight and make it look purdy.. there is an edge LOL, etc etc etc.



I think I still have the XDs stock intake in the garage. If I do, I can take a picture of it and you can tell me if you think that idiotic thing wasn't restrictive. It was, and did what it was designed to do.. make the car very quiet when under load. Again, not everyone's priority is power for an edge if they think the customer is looking for something else. Blanket statements like you threw out are not true IMO. However, I can see that you seem to think they would never do such a thing so I am done with this goofy argument and will go off dynos. That say sometimes they help and sometimes they only make noise.

i8acobra

BTW, the Mustang actually has a very restrictive tube coming off the intake that runs to a membrane on the firewall. This was done to send intake reverberations directly to the cabin to add noise and make the car sound more aggressive to the driver. I'm sure the R&D on that cost a few pennies and definitely cost a few HP. Simply eliminating that tube and blocking off the opening on the intake that the tube goes to should add back a HP or 2.

wheel_of_steel

Just because it looks restrictive, doesn't mean that it -is- restrictive. And definitely vice versa.





This isn't necessarily true. In fact, those 'restrictive' looking resonators that hang off the intake provide a double service: they cancel noise AND provide a measure of resonant tuning. They work in much the same way as an intake plenum. So the presence of a resonator definitely improves power.



Additionally, the intake has to perform a few other tasks:

-Provide stable, repeatable airflow through the MAF and intake air temp sensors

-Be of correct length and diameter for the engine

-Ensure that the whole air filter gets used, rather than just the middle or the edges

-Receive air from a reasonably dirt-free area of high air pressure

-Provide the correct amount of intake noise for the class of car



Still not convinced?





The mustang and camaro both use airboxes and intake tracts with resonators. Some other cars that use this dodgy ass, restrictive setup:



Honda S2000, one of the best NA cars ever made







Ferrari 599, silly engineers forgot to install pod filters



[img]tp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4gKoeTxvfro/TOKFsCyXz0I/AAAAAAAABnA/nq87h31TH3g/s1600/althonealexis.blogspot.com_Ferrari_599_GTB_Fiorano %252B%25252815%252529.jpg[/img]



Corvette















...and not a single cold air intake was to be seen. I guess we know better though, eBay sellers do insist 5-10 hp gains...



*edit* Forgot to include my img tags, sozzles

i8acobra

^^^ I assume you've heard of the EPA? There's your answer.

faithofadragon

dont forget CARB



those smug a**holes