OK Tasos, I'm calling you and your 190HP out...
11-23-2001, 05:49 PM
#11
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Also, I saw you mention the F2 Tiburon. The F2 in Europe and Korea made 153 crank horsepower, unless you've got some other F2 you're talking about. Hyundai didn't make any BETA 2.0L motors that made 275 horsepower from the factory. Not normally aspirated anyway.
You guys REALLY don't seem to get it... There are people in Korea, in Europe and in Australia who wring these motors to their EXTREME LIMIT to get horsepower out of it. They replace EVERYTHING, they custom fabricate crankshafts, they resleeve the block, they build incredibly intricate pistons.
You mentioned flowbench numbers... Bolt an 850cfm carb on a Chevy 305 block, and it will make HORRIBLE horsepower because you have TOO MUCH FLOW. More precisely, you have too little velocity to make horsepower. Huge flowbench numbers mean jack if velocity is shot.
And you have all this headwork, did you oversize the valves? Did you even read where I mentioned the cam timing you've lost? Did you even THINK that a 2nd gear dyno makes HUGE amounts of difference on a chassis dyno?
And if you're using the stock transmission of the 1.6L motor, then that must also be a wholly unlisted transmission in the Hyundai database as well. The only trannies that Hyundai has listed puts you as running about 54 miles per hour at 7000 RPM's on 205/50R15 tires. Do you have some better tranny specs to give us?
The problem here is that you are comparing all these HACKED STOCK PARTS to motors that are running ENTIRELY aftermarket parts. Billet hollow-ground cams, aluminum pistons, titanium RODS, crankshafts that have been completely redesigned specifically for race. Cylinder heads that are 100% brand new casts.
The people who build these 200+HP N/A motors spend TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars to build them... Do you think if they could just shave the head, slap in some 1.6L cams and a bit of ECU work to do the same that they wouldn't??? Do you think they just THROW AWAY the money?
No. They spend these tens of thousands of dollars to make 200+HP N/A motors because it COSTS THAT MUCH TO BUILD THEM. A hodge podge of stock parts doesn't work.
Use some common sense for a moment... Just think, if making this 190HP N/A motor is such a piece of cake, you should SELL it to all these companies to race. They could save HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of dollars of research and development and parts testing, because they already have your motor.
I really want you to think about it.
-Red-
[ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: Red ]
You guys REALLY don't seem to get it... There are people in Korea, in Europe and in Australia who wring these motors to their EXTREME LIMIT to get horsepower out of it. They replace EVERYTHING, they custom fabricate crankshafts, they resleeve the block, they build incredibly intricate pistons.
You mentioned flowbench numbers... Bolt an 850cfm carb on a Chevy 305 block, and it will make HORRIBLE horsepower because you have TOO MUCH FLOW. More precisely, you have too little velocity to make horsepower. Huge flowbench numbers mean jack if velocity is shot.
And you have all this headwork, did you oversize the valves? Did you even read where I mentioned the cam timing you've lost? Did you even THINK that a 2nd gear dyno makes HUGE amounts of difference on a chassis dyno?
And if you're using the stock transmission of the 1.6L motor, then that must also be a wholly unlisted transmission in the Hyundai database as well. The only trannies that Hyundai has listed puts you as running about 54 miles per hour at 7000 RPM's on 205/50R15 tires. Do you have some better tranny specs to give us?
The problem here is that you are comparing all these HACKED STOCK PARTS to motors that are running ENTIRELY aftermarket parts. Billet hollow-ground cams, aluminum pistons, titanium RODS, crankshafts that have been completely redesigned specifically for race. Cylinder heads that are 100% brand new casts.
The people who build these 200+HP N/A motors spend TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars to build them... Do you think if they could just shave the head, slap in some 1.6L cams and a bit of ECU work to do the same that they wouldn't??? Do you think they just THROW AWAY the money?
No. They spend these tens of thousands of dollars to make 200+HP N/A motors because it COSTS THAT MUCH TO BUILD THEM. A hodge podge of stock parts doesn't work.
Use some common sense for a moment... Just think, if making this 190HP N/A motor is such a piece of cake, you should SELL it to all these companies to race. They could save HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of dollars of research and development and parts testing, because they already have your motor.
I really want you to think about it.
-Red-
[ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: Red ]
11-23-2001, 06:17 PM
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Lets take this one step at a time. You now agree a Hyundai 2 liter Beta engine is capable of developing more than 190whp or not. I am not talking of any more than a 2 liter engine, not 3 liter nor v6 nor 2.1 just a 2 liter. Is it capable of that power of not. You seem to know a lot therefore you know the 2 liter beta engine is an over square engine that is why it likes torque but you can redisgn it to be under square so it revs freely and high, still 2 liter. It seems you don´t get it, a 16 valve engine with the right mods can reach a lot of HP of course everything comes with a price but I guess nobody is talking of a budget, lets solve this once and for all, is a 2 liter 16 valve Beta engine with the right mods reach 275 to 300HP n/a or not? After we reach an agreement on this we can go on to Tasos case. If his mods can reach 190whp or not.
11-23-2001, 06:30 PM
#15
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HEY DEAR RED
Next week i am gonna post(cause i am away from home right now)the prospectus and the brochures from Hyundai Europe about the 1.6ltr beta motor.
I wanna see what youll say after that
Ok you´ll have time till then to read back and apologise
Ill give you one week then...
Counting backwards....,..
Next week i am gonna post(cause i am away from home right now)the prospectus and the brochures from Hyundai Europe about the 1.6ltr beta motor.
I wanna see what youll say after that
Ok you´ll have time till then to read back and apologise
Ill give you one week then...
Counting backwards....,..
11-23-2001, 06:41 PM
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For the question if Turboman can reach 245HP with a turbo set up? The Alpine kit is rated at 220hp at 10psi, my turbo set started with an Alpine kit an with some adjustments (fuel pump, regulator, larger injector, larger intercooler, water injection) I am running a smooth 15psi set up. Its power is way higher than the original kit. This is fast even though the turbo is too small and at this pressure it generates a lot of back pressure but believe me when you push the button for 15psi (instead of 10) this things screams. Next project a twin turbo V6 tiburon, projected to reach 380Hp for 2.7 liter!!
[ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: Mario ]
[ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: Mario ]
11-23-2001, 07:15 PM
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Vehicle: 2005 MINI Cooper S
Aight, T-man, I was just wondering. No offence but I don't think you'll make Red look like a fool, that'd be like saying me selling Hyundai stickers and putting Sam out of business.
[ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: The One JVX ]
[ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: The One JVX ]
