Cel Strobe Light
03-06-2006, 04:07 PM
#21
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You're saying the evap canister is related to the TCU in the automatic but not in the manual? or the ECU?
That doesn't make any sense to me...
I suppose though if that IS true, I understand your problems. So then why not just relocate it? It should not take more than a few hours, some hoses and barbs (and elbow grease wink1.gif) to simply relocate the canister. I believe there was even a DIY on relocation of it posted on RDT...(for those who didn't want to remove it). And relocating it will not matter at all, because on non-rev A tibs it sits in the back by the tank.
My advice is this
Put the evap can and all OEM hoses, wiring, sensors EXACTLY how it would be had you never touched it.
Bolt it back on in the OEM location.
Now, the car should be running fine and dandy, right?
If so, then follow the DIY on relocation of it.
Or if you really don't want to mess with it, just take it to a shop and say hey, I need this thing moved inside the engine bay.
It should NOT be a hard project, but right now I think you've tried to "fix" it so many times that it's seriously screwed up. Take a day off and do it right. Get the wheel and splash guards off so you have lots of room, and just restore it to OEM so that the car works. Once you've established that the car runs fine with the canister on (meaning the solenoid is ok and the hoses don't have leaks or w/e would cause your CEL) then go to work on RELOCATING it.
Good luck!
That doesn't make any sense to me...
I suppose though if that IS true, I understand your problems. So then why not just relocate it? It should not take more than a few hours, some hoses and barbs (and elbow grease wink1.gif) to simply relocate the canister. I believe there was even a DIY on relocation of it posted on RDT...(for those who didn't want to remove it). And relocating it will not matter at all, because on non-rev A tibs it sits in the back by the tank.
My advice is this
Put the evap can and all OEM hoses, wiring, sensors EXACTLY how it would be had you never touched it.
Bolt it back on in the OEM location.
Now, the car should be running fine and dandy, right?
If so, then follow the DIY on relocation of it.
Or if you really don't want to mess with it, just take it to a shop and say hey, I need this thing moved inside the engine bay.
It should NOT be a hard project, but right now I think you've tried to "fix" it so many times that it's seriously screwed up. Take a day off and do it right. Get the wheel and splash guards off so you have lots of room, and just restore it to OEM so that the car works. Once you've established that the car runs fine with the canister on (meaning the solenoid is ok and the hoses don't have leaks or w/e would cause your CEL) then go to work on RELOCATING it.
Good luck!
03-06-2006, 04:13 PM
#22
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You HEAR the valve? I've never heard mine.
We just did the removal, no relocation. Something is wrong for sure, why don't you get someone on the forums to look at it for you?
Looking at this pic...
http://hometown.aol.com/goldeye355/hyundai...nnisterleak.jpg
I see you have a few hoses with NO clamps. I'd fix that. I'd also take off all the hose you can and inspect it for cracks or damage. I'd also check the solenoid, that little filter looking black tube thing on there, and the plastic box, one of them is probably cracked.
We just did the removal, no relocation. Something is wrong for sure, why don't you get someone on the forums to look at it for you?
Looking at this pic...
http://hometown.aol.com/goldeye355/hyundai...nnisterleak.jpg
I see you have a few hoses with NO clamps. I'd fix that. I'd also take off all the hose you can and inspect it for cracks or damage. I'd also check the solenoid, that little filter looking black tube thing on there, and the plastic box, one of them is probably cracked.
03-06-2006, 08:25 PM
#23
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Ok bros, I'll buy some barbs and make sure everything is on tight.
Yeah, I wish I could put everything back together the way it was, unfortunately I discarded some of those tubes thinking they weren't necessary and I've learned my lesson, always take precautions... This time was the time which I took to make sure everything was sealed correctly. That I wasn't going to run into any problems. I even had a friend help me. Haha... it sounds like I'm a little bit ignorant, but when there are no options left you guys are the ones who can set me in the right direction.
Yeah, 5-speed Manual wouldn't be a problem. It's not associated with the computer. But because on an auto the amount of force you give on the gas pedal determines which gear you're in and therefore how much pressure you give the tank. I confirmed this with a friend mechanic, that with Automatics, it's just better to leave the evaporation system there and work around it because once the computer senses one wrong air movement it cannot get the proper readings...
again, i'm really sorry to bring this up on your guys again. i'm just stuck with this auto for the time being and have no choice but to do my best to make it perform to the fullest.
Oh, Redz, I was talking about the solenoid valve, the thing that pressurizes. you can hear it spouting air through the tubes sometimes if you listen close enough. also, you can hear your purge sucking in air if you leave it open. I don't think you will be able to hear yours if the tube isn't extended on the solenoid though, much like you wouldn't hear a Warm Air Intake as compared to a Cold Air Intake because of the tubing.
They need to hurry up and design my car on my sig before this all drives me crazy.
Yeah, I wish I could put everything back together the way it was, unfortunately I discarded some of those tubes thinking they weren't necessary and I've learned my lesson, always take precautions... This time was the time which I took to make sure everything was sealed correctly. That I wasn't going to run into any problems. I even had a friend help me. Haha... it sounds like I'm a little bit ignorant, but when there are no options left you guys are the ones who can set me in the right direction.
Yeah, 5-speed Manual wouldn't be a problem. It's not associated with the computer. But because on an auto the amount of force you give on the gas pedal determines which gear you're in and therefore how much pressure you give the tank. I confirmed this with a friend mechanic, that with Automatics, it's just better to leave the evaporation system there and work around it because once the computer senses one wrong air movement it cannot get the proper readings...
again, i'm really sorry to bring this up on your guys again. i'm just stuck with this auto for the time being and have no choice but to do my best to make it perform to the fullest.
Oh, Redz, I was talking about the solenoid valve, the thing that pressurizes. you can hear it spouting air through the tubes sometimes if you listen close enough. also, you can hear your purge sucking in air if you leave it open. I don't think you will be able to hear yours if the tube isn't extended on the solenoid though, much like you wouldn't hear a Warm Air Intake as compared to a Cold Air Intake because of the tubing.
They need to hurry up and design my car on my sig before this all drives me crazy.
03-07-2006, 10:06 PM
#24
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OK guys, did a little research:
"Disconnected, plugged or cracked vacuum lines can also result in evaporative system codes being set."
Maybe there is a leak in my tubing, but I doubt it. And if there was, why would the tank be sucking air in?!
"If there is a pressure drop in the gas tank, the CEL light goes on"
I still cannot find out why it is when I open my gas cap, it SUCKS in air. I made sure everything was sealed and clamped. My fuel tank has no leaks, nothing. The bottom portion of the tubes though is like different sizes but that's only because they need to fit together, and it's not like there is a leak.
QUOTE
The wording used for the above "P" codes will vary from scan tool to scan tool but they will all deal with evaporative emissions leaks (small, medium, and large), Leak Detection Pumps, Leak Detection pump switch or evaporative purge solenoids.
The Leak Detection pump is designed to pressurize the fuel vapor system. This includes the fuel tank, fuel filler tube, gas cap, and vapor lines leading to the Evaporative emissions canister (charcoal canister). OBDII compliant cars are designed to reduce the emission of hydrocarbons (un-burned gas) in to the atmosphere by detecting a leak in the fuel system that may not actually cause liquid fuel to be leaked. It achieves this by pumping a small amount of air in to the system and checking for a pressure drop. If a pressure drop is detected then the check engine light is illuminated. This pressure drop can be caused by a loose gas cap, hole in the fuel filler tube, hole in the gas tank, loose vacuum lines from the gas tank or a defective Leak Detection Pump (LDP).
The LDP is operated by engine vacuum. When the gas tank is between 1/4 and 3/4 of a tank, the LDP test is run. Outside of that range may cause the pump to work too hard to apply the designed amount of pressure (1/4 or less) or too much pressure (3/4 or more). During the LDP test, Engine vacuum passes through a Purge solenoid to the pump. One half of the pump is exposed to this vacuum while the lower half of the diaphram in the pump is exposed to atmospheric pressure. When the vacuum is taken away by the purge solenoid, the spring inside the pump forces the air in the bottom half of the pump in to the evap system. This action takes place numerous times until enough air is forced in to raise the pressure to the preferred level. After that, the pump then seals off it's end of the system and waits for a command to either purge the pressure or until it detects a drop in pressure.
There are many problems that the driver or person working on the car may create in the evaporative emissions system. Pumping gas while the car is running will cause the pressure to drop, leaving a vacuum line loose to the evap system, not tightening a fuel tank hose clamp, not properly torquing/installing a fuel tank seal and lock ring, or damaging any of the related components can all cause the check engine light to come on.
While many people see this system as a headache and troublesome, not only does it help prevent pollution, but it also helps prevent a full tank of gas from evaporating while the car is parked.
The Leak Detection pump is designed to pressurize the fuel vapor system. This includes the fuel tank, fuel filler tube, gas cap, and vapor lines leading to the Evaporative emissions canister (charcoal canister). OBDII compliant cars are designed to reduce the emission of hydrocarbons (un-burned gas) in to the atmosphere by detecting a leak in the fuel system that may not actually cause liquid fuel to be leaked. It achieves this by pumping a small amount of air in to the system and checking for a pressure drop. If a pressure drop is detected then the check engine light is illuminated. This pressure drop can be caused by a loose gas cap, hole in the fuel filler tube, hole in the gas tank, loose vacuum lines from the gas tank or a defective Leak Detection Pump (LDP).
The LDP is operated by engine vacuum. When the gas tank is between 1/4 and 3/4 of a tank, the LDP test is run. Outside of that range may cause the pump to work too hard to apply the designed amount of pressure (1/4 or less) or too much pressure (3/4 or more). During the LDP test, Engine vacuum passes through a Purge solenoid to the pump. One half of the pump is exposed to this vacuum while the lower half of the diaphram in the pump is exposed to atmospheric pressure. When the vacuum is taken away by the purge solenoid, the spring inside the pump forces the air in the bottom half of the pump in to the evap system. This action takes place numerous times until enough air is forced in to raise the pressure to the preferred level. After that, the pump then seals off it's end of the system and waits for a command to either purge the pressure or until it detects a drop in pressure.
There are many problems that the driver or person working on the car may create in the evaporative emissions system. Pumping gas while the car is running will cause the pressure to drop, leaving a vacuum line loose to the evap system, not tightening a fuel tank hose clamp, not properly torquing/installing a fuel tank seal and lock ring, or damaging any of the related components can all cause the check engine light to come on.
While many people see this system as a headache and troublesome, not only does it help prevent pollution, but it also helps prevent a full tank of gas from evaporating while the car is parked.
"Disconnected, plugged or cracked vacuum lines can also result in evaporative system codes being set."
Maybe there is a leak in my tubing, but I doubt it. And if there was, why would the tank be sucking air in?!
"If there is a pressure drop in the gas tank, the CEL light goes on"
I still cannot find out why it is when I open my gas cap, it SUCKS in air. I made sure everything was sealed and clamped. My fuel tank has no leaks, nothing. The bottom portion of the tubes though is like different sizes but that's only because they need to fit together, and it's not like there is a leak.
03-07-2006, 10:35 PM
#25
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i always have said and still think its your evap purge solenoid thats messing up.
there is nothing else in that system that can throw the cel but that!.
if the purge does not purge (open or close) and is stuck the vacum from your IM will cause your fuel tank to become vaccum pressurized. just look at the pic u just put up imagine if that was a valve and stuck open. wouldn't the IM suck through your canister aswell? it would. check the valve and replace it.
there is nothing else in that system that can throw the cel but that!.
if the purge does not purge (open or close) and is stuck the vacum from your IM will cause your fuel tank to become vaccum pressurized. just look at the pic u just put up imagine if that was a valve and stuck open. wouldn't the IM suck through your canister aswell? it would. check the valve and replace it.
03-08-2006, 06:07 AM
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Or even try swapping the hoses to the opposite ends of the solenoid.
I can't remember with the gas cap, isn't it SUPPOSED to suck air in?
I can't remember with the gas cap, isn't it SUPPOSED to suck air in?
03-08-2006, 08:21 AM
#28
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It either creates a vaccum or pressurizes it, it's that loss of vaccum or pressure that keys the CEL.
03-08-2006, 01:40 PM
#29
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Solenoid is brand new. I just put a new one in there. And I hear it working. But supposedly it's supposed to vibrate. I will check the connection to make sure it's vibrating.
That's the big mystery here. It's nothing but a Vacuum. If the purge sucks in air even with the solenoid out, then it's going it from the intake or TB somewhere right? So it's sucking in air. You can feel it when you touch it. It must mean one of two things. The solenoid is connected wrong (which it's not because I looked at SplinterCel's untouched stock cannister and I connected all the tubes the same way as stock) or the Solenoid isn't working. If there was a leak in one of the tubes there wouldn't be a Vacuum.
OK so I've concluded, since the stock cannister setup has a certain length of tubing for it, maybe the CEL and Vacuum is created because the Solenoid is not programmed by the ECU to send enough air through the entire custom extended tube?! Therefore only sends the amount it was designed for, therefore not sending enough air in AND out?!
That's the big mystery here. It's nothing but a Vacuum. If the purge sucks in air even with the solenoid out, then it's going it from the intake or TB somewhere right? So it's sucking in air. You can feel it when you touch it. It must mean one of two things. The solenoid is connected wrong (which it's not because I looked at SplinterCel's untouched stock cannister and I connected all the tubes the same way as stock) or the Solenoid isn't working. If there was a leak in one of the tubes there wouldn't be a Vacuum.
OK so I've concluded, since the stock cannister setup has a certain length of tubing for it, maybe the CEL and Vacuum is created because the Solenoid is not programmed by the ECU to send enough air through the entire custom extended tube?! Therefore only sends the amount it was designed for, therefore not sending enough air in AND out?!
03-09-2006, 06:44 PM
#30
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all the hoses down there are diferent sizes if u dont know that you have biger problems.
no, wrong it has nothing to do with how long the tubes are it has to do with your car sucking air through your gas tank.
you see the bracket with the 3 bolts bolted to the canister? you see that big round thing that connects to the three bolts? that is the purge solenoid. it has a sensor that plugs into it where that lil knub sticks out.
this is how mine looks it doesn't have to be perfect aslong as you have the sensor pluged in and the solinoid works u will get no cel ever. as a matter affact i drove my car for a day with the sensor unpluged and had a cel then i just pluged in the solinoid without any other hoses and i got no cel.
it shouldn't matter if you have a autotragic or not. do those hoses run to your tranny? does that sensor connector run to your tranny? no it doesn't. you can hear your solinoid i cant hear shit under my hood maybe thats a problem your having i don't think its suppose to make noise.
QUOTE
OK so I've concluded, since the stock cannister setup has a certain length of tubing for it, maybe the CEL and Vacuum is created because the Solenoid is not programmed by the ECU to send enough air through the entire custom extended tube?! Therefore only sends the amount it was designed for, therefore not sending enough air in AND out?!
no, wrong it has nothing to do with how long the tubes are it has to do with your car sucking air through your gas tank.
you see the bracket with the 3 bolts bolted to the canister? you see that big round thing that connects to the three bolts? that is the purge solenoid. it has a sensor that plugs into it where that lil knub sticks out.
this is how mine looks it doesn't have to be perfect aslong as you have the sensor pluged in and the solinoid works u will get no cel ever. as a matter affact i drove my car for a day with the sensor unpluged and had a cel then i just pluged in the solinoid without any other hoses and i got no cel.
it shouldn't matter if you have a autotragic or not. do those hoses run to your tranny? does that sensor connector run to your tranny? no it doesn't. you can hear your solinoid i cant hear shit under my hood maybe thats a problem your having i don't think its suppose to make noise.