<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad-Machine)</div><div class='quotemain'>Unfortunatly, because of the shape of the Tib I cannot go totally retro.. but the idea is there.</div>

Well...you could go retro. But that's only if you're skilled and devoted to get to that point.

Nice Tib sketches, though, I'd suggest going wing-less...unless you're just going for looks. *shrugs* Personally, wings are pointless. 'specially for our cars.

 

not totally useless... if you have an idea what you are doing. A "wing" like the racers use.. those are useless. Most of the stock OEM spoilers are too.. unless you are driving an ATi or an Evo... Going on my limited knowledge of airflow.. I am creating a "Kamm" tail at the back of my tib.. this actually lengthens the car as far as the air is concerned, making it more streamlined and stable.

 

You've got your terminology wrong. Wings are the air foils attached to the rear of the car. Spoiler is the terminology for underside airflow. Example: attached lip to the bottom of the front bumper (air dam or front lip spoiler), or attached to the side of the car (side skirts). Almost 80% of the people out there have the terms confused.

Kamm tails are quite useful, but if you used it in conjunction with Venturi tunnels and rear diffusers, you car would be signficantly more stable at higher speeds. And note that the Kamm tails aren't considered a wing.

And I still stand by the fact that wing/air foils are 100% unnecessary...for any car. They serve as excess weight, and there are much more significant modifcations you can do that would increase stability and/or downforce (such as the Venturi tunnels and rear diffusers [aka ground effects]).

 

if you look closely at the drawings, I do have a diffisuer under the rear bumper... I may get the terminology confused some.. and you are correct in what wings are (I have seen front wings too, though) but the ideas are sound... the only things that I am adding to the car that are "rice" are the slots in the front bumper.. I just happened to like the looks of them on the original Tiburon rally car that Libra racing used.. I will make them functional though.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ArcticChill)</div><div class='quotemain'>And I still stand by the fact that wing/air foils are 100% unnecessary...for any car.</div>

???

Let's just say that if Schumacher's F1 car didn't have a rear-wing, he'd never win anything... & no offense Arctic but you're wrong about the terminology too...

Spoilers act like barriers to air flow, in order to build up higher air pressure in front of the spoiler. They produce downforce by creating a "dam" at the rear lip of the trunk. "Air dams" are also "spoilers" but are designed to stop the air flow from going under the car... "Wings" are the reverse of the wings you see on planes. If fitted correctly they generate more downforce than drag & can be very effective in reducing lift caused by low pressure over the ass-end of a car travelling at high speed.

 

Well, maybe you think so Arctic, but the rest of the car buying public doesn't. An accent for your car is an accent. Most spoilers are just that.

 

since mad's tib will be a street car and not a trailer-b****... who cares? it accentuates the vehicle. thats whats important....

WRX STi's w/ the huge spoiler (i've only seen them on the blue STi's) are pointless also.... but ppl love them. why? because they look good on the car


Mad... nice drawings. you're awesome

 

I would like to know where the concept that spoilers and wings are totally useless for front drivers? If properly balanced front to rear, a combination of front airdam and a wing or spoiler on the rear can make the car VERY stable at speed.

Do not listen when people tell you that you do not need traction on the rear wheels.. maybe not in a straight line when drag racing.. but in the corners, it can help keep the rear behind the front.

 

Actually, they are more for straight line driving than for turns, as a matter of fact, when you turn, it's your tires what turns the car and unless your speaking about a F1 car, spoilers and/or wings won't help in turns. Even when they were designed to do so, they would help IF your traveling at very high speeds, maybe more than 100 MPH, and our treet cars cannot take turns at that speed (unless your talking about a large radio turn).
On the other hand, spoilers and wings DO help, the Audi TT roadster had some problems because of it's inverted wing shape and it HAD TO put a little wing on the rear to avoid rear axle lifting at high speed.

However, I have to say I agree with Arctic when he says that in most cases wings and spoilers DO NOTHING but be ornaments when not designed as a unit with ground effects. In the 80's F1 cars reached almost 4G's in turns thanks to that technology, and FIA banned it because turn speeds were raising incredibly fast and dangerously...


MadMachine, your project orientation is just perfect, VERY tasteful and good looking, it could easily have been a factory design. I like the Tib with no rear wing, or with a little accent like you have drawn. I'd like to watch closely how your project goes forward, keep it up man.

 

thanks man..that is what I am aiming for... I actually stole several design elements from other cars.. the front bumper is a design from a modified BMW M coupe/roadster (not the standard z3) and the rear is from the Porsche BoxsterS with the tailights from the fiat coupe... derivative perhaps.. but those designs work and they work with a subtle flavor that I prefer. I want the car to pass under the radar of most people... the dark green colour will probably help a lot.