<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>plantenutz:

Um...do you know if that SC would work on an auto,because i really want get one soon,but alpine always made me think twice,but i forgot about capa,and i don't mind noisy wink</div>Yes it will work on an auto but the auto tranny is kinda weak.

Yes it will work on the auto. The auto is not weak, just has a bad heat problem. got the B&M cooler, and a good ATF like a B&M trick shift, and you should be able to handle the pathetic gains that the alpine systems provide.

Sweet thanks guys smile.gif

I just got this from Alpine today.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Dear Hyundai Owner:

Recently we replied to your inquiry about both our supercharger and turbo w/intercooler applications for the 1.8L/2.0L Hyundai Elantra/Tiburon.

We have recently become aware of some confusion regarding some of our claims. In this land of "legal disclaimers", so that there is no misunderstanding, we wish to clarify the horsepower and torques increases quoted to you in our original reply:

Performance improvements for the turbo kit are 80+ HP & 115+ torque @ 10 lbs./psi boost. The supercharged kit improvements are 40+ HP & 50+ torque @ 4 lbs./psi boost (PLEASE NOTE: These are S. African vehicles tested with 96 octane gas, and no smog devices--U.S. vehicles increases will be slightly lower, and will update as soon as we've tested here). 1.8L figures will be lower due to lower baseline figures, but the percentage of increase should be the same--engine has a different bore & stroke. Dyno charts on U.S vehicles will be available soon.

If there is still an interest on your part in our applications, please stay in contact with us, and we will update you on dyno numbers taken from U.S. vehicles, using U.S. gas (91 octane), with California smog devices, (and for all of you Californians) CARB testing and compliance, along with availability. As briefly mentioned, we are in talks with Hyundai now, and as soon as each is CARB certified, and with their approval, plans are to notify all of their dealers as to the availability of these kits (as a possible dealer installed option), and that it will not void any factory warranties. Our kits as an aftermarket item, carries a "1-Year / Unlimited Mileage Warranty "against defects in materials and workmanship.

We apologize for any misconception implied, but it was not intended on our part. We understand the need to have improvements shown in terms and numbers for the U.S. market, and are attempting to give you what you want! Thank you for your understanding, and hope this helps clears up any confusion or misconception caused by us. I hope to hear back from you soon.</div>

those are better numbers, but still they should be able to show close to that on a stock hyundai without re-tunning.

When you can get the supercharger up to 40hp and 50tq gain, then i might consider it.

Oh and i just reolised i use 97 gas aswell i didnt reolise you get 91 in the US

you could also do a custom SC kit like me :D

Chapter One:

Damn! I've been trying to "hold back" on my feelings since this thread was started, but as experience has shown me in the past, the young import enthusiasts on the internet are always quick to "jump on the bandwagon" and offer opinions on subjects you have no first hand knowledge of...

...and just so that you fellas here know that I speak from experience (sorry, this is going to be a novel, and those of you with short attentions spans are gonna miss out on the controversy, 'cause I'm gonna stir things up!!!--too bad for you):

Yes, I'm an old fart (48 to be exact), and have been in this industry for going on 30 years now (this will be my 23rd year attending the SEMA show!). I grew up in Flint Michigan (General Motors town). My grandfather was head doctor at Buick, my aunt head nurse at the Chevy engine plant (worked there one summer--don't ever buy a `72 6-cyl Chevy---I put in all of the freeze plugs crooked!!), and my neighbor was a teacher at GMI (General Motors Institute). You cut me and I bleed 30 weight oil! I have two BA degrees (Small Business/U.of Michigan--Commercial Design & Graphics/Academy of Art College,S.F.) and started working in this industry part-time installing stereos to pay for schooling. In the mid-to-late `70's, I worked for Blaupunkt (Robert Bosch Corp.) as their factory rep for California, and built several project vehicles for CES (Vector, Saleen, B&B, Clenet, etc.).

In the early `80's, I had my own company in San Diego (Pacific Motoring Accessories) "customizing" cars and was the exclusive importer for Alpina, ABT, MOMO, Racing Dynamics, Zender, and many other European aftermarket tuner companies, built dozens of cars for SEMA and prototyped the very first supercharged Rabbit GTI in this country (`84--using an 80-cu./in. Magnacharger). Raced Pro-Solo for four years, and held the west coast championship in my division for two of those years.

From `86-to-`91, I was the designer, engineer, wrote the instructions, and handled sales and marketing for Xenon (urethane ground effects manufacturer), and built over a dozen "show" vehicles for SEMA and the magazines, including the first kits ever for Hyundai (the Excel, then Sonata).

For 8 years I was with "Turbo & Hi-Tech Performance", "Today's Truck & SUV", and "Import Tuner" (my idea) magazines as their V.P. of Advertising & Marketing, plus wrote dozens of articles for all three magazines, and hold diplomas from Skip Barber, Bondurant, and Richard Petty driving schools, and have been on most every "track" in America. I've been to the Tokyo Auto Salon 3 times, and spent several weeks in Germany (courtesy of H&R Springs), and have driven on the Nuremberg Ring with Hans Stouck sitting beside me! I probably have driven just about every hot exotic vehicle out there, from a twin turbo'd Lingenfelter Corvette, to a Hennessey Viper, to a 4-sec 0-to-60 Hummer! My `94 Mustang was featured six times in Turbo magazine, and had the very first SVO (Powerdyne) supercharger (cover of 10th anniversary issue--June `95), then a Kenne-Bell (Whipple) supercharger, and then went to an all-motor N/A 500+hp to the wheels (kicked some serious ass with that one--11.41@126.1mph in the 1/4 mile on street tires at Plamdale!) and was preparing it to run in the Silver State Classic right before I sold it!

After those magazines got bought out by Prime Media (McMullen/Argus), I went over to Y-Visionary, and started "Street Trucks", and "Import Racer!" magazines (they already had "Drag Racer" magazine), until they put me in charge of all of their publications (which I didn't want). Then I retired (for a year).

Prior to being asked to join Alpine Developments, my last two years was helping Speedoptions.com. get up and running and showing this industry the power that the internet has ("experience" reference in very first paragraph)!

As of July 1st, I am officially heading up Alpine Developments new U.S. office here, and are in the process of remodeling our offices, relocating our lifts and dyno, and building our fabrication shop in the back of our building, all the while building and prototyping more applications, and getting vehicles ready for CARB testing, with only two full-time employees (myself and John Finnell). John Conchie is here now (the owner) along with a technician/engineer, and are busy getting the new production pieces for our 2.7L Aqua-cooled supercharger installed on two cars for SEMA (one for Import Racer! magazine, and the other in collaboration with HKS), and three test mules for Hyundai, as well as another Isuzu Rodeo for SEMA, and an X-Terra and Axiom for CARB testing.

So now you have a little clue as to who I am, and my background (in case some of you are thinking "who the hell is this guy, and where does he get off?").

[ September 20, 2002, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: ballrub ]

Chapter Two

Before I get into the "figures" quoted on Alpine's website, I'll try and give you a little insight about Alpine as I lead up to it.

Alpine Developments has been in business 22 years (how long has HKS and Greddy been around?...hmmm), making turbo charger kits for, and serving all of Africa, the middle East, Europe, Asia Minor, southern Asia, Australia and New Zealand, both in the aftermarket and O.E. (with Nissan, Fiat, Renault, Puegeot, Alfa Romeo, Toyota and others). Only within the last five years has Alpine started using the Eaton superchargers (the ONLY O.E. approved supercharger, used by Ford, Pontiac, Buick, Jaguar, Nissan, Toyota, Mercedes Benz, Aston Martin...).

Now, it's only been about a year now since the home office in S. Africa has been selling a few kits in the U.S. (less than a dozen total, mostly the 2.0L Hyundai kits, including TRD's 2.4L and 2.7L supercharger kits through the Tacoma website, which we make for TRD, and some Isuzu applications)! Now why would anyone think that a company in S. Africa, who actively sells to those markets I mentioned in the above paragraph (this does NOT include the U.S.) should have dyno figures on U.S. cars (i.e. 91 octane gas, on smogged vehicles, in numbers that us Americans understand) when everyone else in the rest of the world understands and relates to the information posted on Alpine's website?

As I tried to explain to Tony (Random), according to our home office, only a handful of complaints (less than 10--I'm guessing one was yours Jon) have come from outside the U.S. about "how the numbers were obtained" regarding the HP (KW) and Torque (NM) increases. These numbers were obtained using S. African vehicles, using their gas (96+ octane), with no smog devices, and on a roller dyno, and calculated from the "to-the-wheels" to "at the flywheel", and ARE ACCURATE, contrary to your statement Tony (Random) ("The HP figures you were supplied with are 100% inaccurate."). They are DIFFERENT from what will be realized on U.S. vehicles.

One good thing has come out of the "fuss" that only the members of this website have made! I have just recently sent out an e-mail update to everyone who has inquired about our 1.8L/2.0L Hyundai kits (which I sent to you Tony, and you have posted like I hoped you would), hopefully clearing up any confusion we may have inadvertently caused. I have also instructed our parent office to clarify on our website, as to how these figures were obtained in detail, so as not to confuse us Americans. this may take a few days (because we don't host our own site), but will inform this site as to the day it is updated. And, more importantly, once we've tested and dyno'd U.S. cars here, we will be adding our own sub-site, just for the U.S. market, listing applications available here, along with numbers from our tests on U.S. smogged vehicles that we here in the states can relate to. Although, as a few of you have pointed out, even the same car, on the same dyno, can have varying results (let alone different vehicles on different type dynos), so Alpine Developments plans to list all HP and torque improvements in the future as a percentage of increase over baseline numbers (stating that the actual numbers obtained should only be used as a reference).

[ September 20, 2002, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: ballrub ]

Chapter Three

Now to my "venting"!!!!!

Viper966 said: "their supercharger is crap... i haven't heard anybody say good things about it yet.... better to make ur own turbo kit

since there is a alpine rep in the US it may be less crap but ive heard horror stores about having to machine the manifold to only seeing 20-40hp gains etc"

Have you had first hand knowledge of this? If not, you are helping to propagate mis-information, aren't you? Have you contacted Alpine Developments, or me (like Hootie suggested) to get the information first hand? And why in the world would you suggest that it be better to "build your own turbo" than use our kit? Do you have any idea of the ramifications of that statement? I don't know you, but based on your statements, I don't think you do!

Jon: You said: "I gained 77 horses with there original programming and a bit more after the quick tune so I cant wait to see the result of getting the chip's tunned at the beguining of next month. "

That seems pretty damn close to the "quoted 80-HP increase" from our turbo kit that we quote on our website, that everyone seems to be b*tching about!

Now it's your turn Random (Tony)!!! Let's talk about those dyno figures you quote for your two cars (which I guess were already slightly modified) that Alpine installed for you at no charge(?), in someone else's shop, using someone else's tools, and fabricating whatever needed to make fit on U.S. vehicle with whatever was laying around (your two cars were the very first in this country), by the owner himself (from S. Africa), and paid what?--$1900 (for what now sells for $2600)!!! How much "factory" support can you expect from a company half way around the world? Personally, I think John Conchie has bent over backwards to try and help solve your specific problems!

You quote: "To date, the turbo's best performance is 169.9 HP and 167.8 Ft Lbs to the wheels. Dyno available (It's been posted here)

TO date, the Superchargers best performance is 152 HP and 145 Ft Lbs to the wheels. Dyno available (It's been posted here).

The Turbo showed a 50 HP gain to the wheels the supercharger showed a 20 HP gain to the wheels."

Now that's funny, because I dug up your original dyno charts here (done July `01 on TRD's dyno), and (if the files weren't labeled wrong) both cars showed baseline figures at around 102-HP, and 103-ft./lbs. of torque, to-the-wheels. If your above statement about the "to date...best performance" numbers are correct, and our basline dyno charts are correct, then;

Turbo car:
best run after (169.9-HP) - baseline (102-HP) = 67.9-HP increase!
best run after (167.8-ft/lbs) - baseline (103-ft/lbs) = 54.8-ft/lbs increase!

Supercharged car:
best run after (152-HP) - baseline (102-HP) = 50-HP increase!
best run after (145-ft/lbs) - baseline (103-ft/lbs) = 42-ft/lbs increase!

(sounds about right to me!)

Yet you claim only a 50-HP gain on the turbo kit (implying your baseline HP number is 119.9), and a 20-HP gain on the supercharger kit (implying your baseline HP number is 132)!!!! Was there that much of a difference between the two cars before installation? Am I the only one who noticed this?

So...who's confusing who?????

You go on to say: "Until Alpine re-tunes the Unichip, I would not recommend either product at the moment.", and then on another thread you say: "If you were to go with Alpine, use it as a starter kit. You would also need.", and you go on to list parts you think is needed to make our kit work properly. HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT? You are recommending that people should modify our kit and void our warranty? That doesn't sound very "professional" to me! In fact, (at least it looks this way to me), you still have some kind of personal grudge against Alpine Developments.

[ September 20, 2002, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: ballrub ]