tuning your SAFC
03-26-2005, 03:11 PM
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tuning your SAFC
ok so Im new to tuning, yea ive been ricing it up for a few years, but Ive not fallen to the darkside, Ive been searching for a good DIY on how to tune your SAFC, although none of these are for a hyundai engine, they give some advice and explanations, as well as critisicm
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so far I think this one is the most comprehensive one, its very explicitive, which is good for the newb
http://www.2gnt.com/www/files/SAFC-tuning.htm
this one here, has some good pointers
www.machvforums.com/archive/index.php/t-23570.html
[color=#008000]and this thread was good too, the contents of which I pasted below to give the thread some meat, tell me what you guys think, and if you have any advice on hyundai specific engines, ie. the beta motor
http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index....showtopic=57592
Basic AFC Tuning
A "How-to" Guide by Cody Graham
Low Throttle Settings
Ok, first we will set the Low Throttle setting on the S-AFC, so don't go above 30% throttle during this time. Set your throttle adjustment points at 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000, and 7500. (There are 12 Points to set for the SAFC-II, so you might want to choose 800, 1600, 2200, 2800, 3400, 4000, 4600, 5200, 5800, 6400, 7000, 7600. We'll continue with the discussion for the SAFC-I for these purposes, but the same principles will apply for the SAFC-II.) To set the 1000 setting, just let the car idle in your driveway. You will need to be watching your logger and your S-AFC at this point. Just to get you used to what you will need to monitor, this is what you're going to need to look at-- First check what your airflow is... If it is under 125 you are in low fuel trim band; 125-175 you are in mid trim band; over 175 and you are in your hi trim. Ok..., the next thing you need to look at is what that fuel trim is at, i.e., if you're at 75 Hz you need to look at the low fuel trim settings. Finally, look at what RPM you are at. All right, now back to the tuning part...
Let the car idle in your driveway. Airflow should be somewhere under 100hz, and RPM should be about 700 or so. So you need to take a look at your Low fuel trim. If your trim is over 100% you need to richen the 1000rpm mark up. So move it up a bit, then once your O2s start cycling again check the trim again. If it's still over, move it up more, and repeat until you get to 100%. Do the opposite if you are under 100%.
Next we will do the 2000rpm mark. Get on a nice long stretch of road, and get the car in 3rd gear or higher (varies based on speed limit etc). Now give the car just enough throttle to where your RPMs aren’t increasing or decreasing. At this point, it helps if you have a friend in the car. Have your friend take a look at your fuel trim (look at whichever one is relevant, based on the chart above). If the trim is over 100%, add fuel; if under 100%, lean it out.
Finally do 3000rpm. Once again, just cruise along without allowing your RPMs to vary too much. Check which fuel trim your ECU is using, then adjust that RPM's set point until that trim level is at 100%.
Now you can go on and do 4000 rpm, 5000, etc. But I just set the rest of them at what the 3000rpm mark is, and call it even. Mainly because it isn't very often that I'm at 4000 rpm and not at full throttle.
Now we get to the fun part - high throttle settings!
High Throttle Settings
This is truly an art. There are many ways to go about doing it, and this is just my way. Take it with a grain of salt, don't follow it to the T, and if anything goes wrong make something else up.
All right. The first thing I do is to set my high settings to the same setting all the way across. Usually, I use whatever the 3000RPM low setting was across the board as a starting point.
All right now. I did this solo, but it would probably be easier with two people. Just have the second person do whatever the first person isn't doing...
OK.
1) Start at 2000rpm in 3rd gear, start recording the data log, then wait maybe half a second and floor it.
2) Hold the gear all the way until you bounce off the rev limiter (or if you don't have a rev limiter hold it to whatever you feel like holding it to).
3) Now pull off the highway and into a parking lot. Review the log. What you want to look for is any dip in timing or flattening of timing or anything of that sort.
4) If there is timing getting pulled or flattening out anywhere you need to richen that section of revs up. Look at the corresponding engine speed then add fuel to that section on the S-AFC. Only increase it by 1 or 2% unless you are seeing a massive dive in timing. In that case richen it up a good 5% or so.
5) If there is no timing getting pulled and you have a nice long steady increase in timing you are running too rich. Lean it out across the board using good judgment. I take steps of 3% when leaning things out.
6) Repeat until subtracting fuel gives you knock (i.e. when timing takes a plunge)
A few things to clear up:
First off..., the reason I suggest that you monitor timing instead of knock count while tuning is because of the way that data loggers work. They poll the ECU for information a given number of times per second. It's usually around 80 times a second, if you are monitoring 10 variables, since each variable is being updated 8 times per second. Knock is an instantaneous thing-- the ECU sees it, and then basically forgets about it. So when your data logger asks for knock, it gets whatever the current knock count is. That means that you will miss a lot of knock counts even if the only variable you are monitoring is knock. Since the ECU adjusts timing based on knock counts, and the ECU never misses a knock count (unless you have a faulty sensor), you can just watch timing instead:
8 counts of knock (or more) and the ECU retards timing
4-7 counts of knock and the ECU levels timing off
1-3 counts of knock and the ECU slowly increases timing
0 counts of knock and your ECU will greatly increase timing
So while tuning, instead of aiming for "no knock", aim for "no retarded timing"!
[/color]
so far I think this one is the most comprehensive one, its very explicitive, which is good for the newb
http://www.2gnt.com/www/files/SAFC-tuning.htm
this one here, has some good pointers
www.machvforums.com/archive/index.php/t-23570.html
[color=#008000]and this thread was good too, the contents of which I pasted below to give the thread some meat, tell me what you guys think, and if you have any advice on hyundai specific engines, ie. the beta motor
http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index....showtopic=57592
Basic AFC Tuning
A "How-to" Guide by Cody Graham
Low Throttle Settings
Ok, first we will set the Low Throttle setting on the S-AFC, so don't go above 30% throttle during this time. Set your throttle adjustment points at 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000, and 7500. (There are 12 Points to set for the SAFC-II, so you might want to choose 800, 1600, 2200, 2800, 3400, 4000, 4600, 5200, 5800, 6400, 7000, 7600. We'll continue with the discussion for the SAFC-I for these purposes, but the same principles will apply for the SAFC-II.) To set the 1000 setting, just let the car idle in your driveway. You will need to be watching your logger and your S-AFC at this point. Just to get you used to what you will need to monitor, this is what you're going to need to look at-- First check what your airflow is... If it is under 125 you are in low fuel trim band; 125-175 you are in mid trim band; over 175 and you are in your hi trim. Ok..., the next thing you need to look at is what that fuel trim is at, i.e., if you're at 75 Hz you need to look at the low fuel trim settings. Finally, look at what RPM you are at. All right, now back to the tuning part...
Let the car idle in your driveway. Airflow should be somewhere under 100hz, and RPM should be about 700 or so. So you need to take a look at your Low fuel trim. If your trim is over 100% you need to richen the 1000rpm mark up. So move it up a bit, then once your O2s start cycling again check the trim again. If it's still over, move it up more, and repeat until you get to 100%. Do the opposite if you are under 100%.
Next we will do the 2000rpm mark. Get on a nice long stretch of road, and get the car in 3rd gear or higher (varies based on speed limit etc). Now give the car just enough throttle to where your RPMs aren’t increasing or decreasing. At this point, it helps if you have a friend in the car. Have your friend take a look at your fuel trim (look at whichever one is relevant, based on the chart above). If the trim is over 100%, add fuel; if under 100%, lean it out.
Finally do 3000rpm. Once again, just cruise along without allowing your RPMs to vary too much. Check which fuel trim your ECU is using, then adjust that RPM's set point until that trim level is at 100%.
Now you can go on and do 4000 rpm, 5000, etc. But I just set the rest of them at what the 3000rpm mark is, and call it even. Mainly because it isn't very often that I'm at 4000 rpm and not at full throttle.
Now we get to the fun part - high throttle settings!
High Throttle Settings
This is truly an art. There are many ways to go about doing it, and this is just my way. Take it with a grain of salt, don't follow it to the T, and if anything goes wrong make something else up.
All right. The first thing I do is to set my high settings to the same setting all the way across. Usually, I use whatever the 3000RPM low setting was across the board as a starting point.
All right now. I did this solo, but it would probably be easier with two people. Just have the second person do whatever the first person isn't doing...
OK.
1) Start at 2000rpm in 3rd gear, start recording the data log, then wait maybe half a second and floor it.
2) Hold the gear all the way until you bounce off the rev limiter (or if you don't have a rev limiter hold it to whatever you feel like holding it to).
3) Now pull off the highway and into a parking lot. Review the log. What you want to look for is any dip in timing or flattening of timing or anything of that sort.
4) If there is timing getting pulled or flattening out anywhere you need to richen that section of revs up. Look at the corresponding engine speed then add fuel to that section on the S-AFC. Only increase it by 1 or 2% unless you are seeing a massive dive in timing. In that case richen it up a good 5% or so.
5) If there is no timing getting pulled and you have a nice long steady increase in timing you are running too rich. Lean it out across the board using good judgment. I take steps of 3% when leaning things out.
6) Repeat until subtracting fuel gives you knock (i.e. when timing takes a plunge)
A few things to clear up:
First off..., the reason I suggest that you monitor timing instead of knock count while tuning is because of the way that data loggers work. They poll the ECU for information a given number of times per second. It's usually around 80 times a second, if you are monitoring 10 variables, since each variable is being updated 8 times per second. Knock is an instantaneous thing-- the ECU sees it, and then basically forgets about it. So when your data logger asks for knock, it gets whatever the current knock count is. That means that you will miss a lot of knock counts even if the only variable you are monitoring is knock. Since the ECU adjusts timing based on knock counts, and the ECU never misses a knock count (unless you have a faulty sensor), you can just watch timing instead:
8 counts of knock (or more) and the ECU retards timing
4-7 counts of knock and the ECU levels timing off
1-3 counts of knock and the ECU slowly increases timing
0 counts of knock and your ECU will greatly increase timing
So while tuning, instead of aiming for "no knock", aim for "no retarded timing"!
03-26-2005, 04:51 PM
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WOw, that was nice man. I wont get into tuning until the summer, but i will def remember to re-read this once i do. Im not sure if this is all high quality info because I havent tried anything yet, but it seems very informative and it was writen very well. THanks
03-26-2005, 05:21 PM
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Vehicle: N/A as in Not Applicable, not Naturally Aspirated
^If you're going turbo this summer (or anything close) read Corky Bell's book. Great read, search for title.
I'll have to check those link, thanks for the post.
I'll have to check those link, thanks for the post.
03-27-2005, 10:21 AM
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Patreezy - Iv been researching turbos now for like 4 months. I have already bought everything but the pipping and i have read Maximum Boost as well. My turbo will be going on to the car in about 1 week. Ill be using just a 12:1 fmu for now, but this summer i should be getting an SMT-6, so ill deal with tuning when that gets put in.
But thank you for offering advice.
But thank you for offering advice.
03-27-2005, 03:48 PM
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so after reading thouroghly the topic by Guy El Khoury at GTuned.com
Ive come up with this,
you will need a digital air fuel meter, I saw w=one on ebay by Dyno tuned, so I may buy that one, but a freaking EGT with the probe runs like 135 by Greddy and for the Warning edition, its like 190, DAMN, thats alot of loot.
Is that really needed ?
The apexi safc has a blue wire for checking current from the O2 sensor but its rumored that it doesnt work so well, but is it a fact ??
I guess for a NA beta, you really dont need a fuel controller, but after putting a 1.8 cam in and a bigger manifold, ie the airram, wouoldnt it be best to tune the air fuel to yield better HP marks ???
man i cant wait to do this, 2 more months or so until Ill be doing this !!!!
Ive come up with this,
you will need a digital air fuel meter, I saw w=one on ebay by Dyno tuned, so I may buy that one, but a freaking EGT with the probe runs like 135 by Greddy and for the Warning edition, its like 190, DAMN, thats alot of loot.
Is that really needed ?
The apexi safc has a blue wire for checking current from the O2 sensor but its rumored that it doesnt work so well, but is it a fact ??
I guess for a NA beta, you really dont need a fuel controller, but after putting a 1.8 cam in and a bigger manifold, ie the airram, wouoldnt it be best to tune the air fuel to yield better HP marks ???
man i cant wait to do this, 2 more months or so until Ill be doing this !!!!
04-01-2005, 02:29 PM
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exactley why i want one now, being on a shoe string budget, with my only sponsor being my wallet, I will get one now, along with a wideband O2 sensor, and tune it up.