Do you think it's ok for parents to raise their children in...
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When I was a kid, my imagination was a bit to good for grounding, timeout, etc to work. I responded well to a butt woopin. Luckily my kids took more after my wife and time out is earth-shatteringly bad it seems. 
<- so none of that. 
However, I am not going to try and apply what works on my kids to every kid ever and if done right it can be an effective tool for hard-heads like I was when I was younger.
<- so none of that. However, I am not going to try and apply what works on my kids to every kid ever and if done right it can be an effective tool for hard-heads like I was when I was younger.
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My .02
I think we all agree hitting a child out of anger is wrong and know what 'bad parenting' is. But it is when people try to be 'good parents' but don't know how to be that is the issue... Maybe is was how their parents were and they "turned out all right" so they use the same, or they didn't get along with their parents and so they try the opposite?
There is a scale for parenting. And with many things in life, the extremes of things aren't that good, a balance can be hard to find, but desirable.
The left extreme with which you speak of is 'hands off', and the right extreme side is controlling.
There are stages in a child life too which changed our parentying strategy. IMO, we should start right and work left. When a kid is a baby, you need to be controlling, or they will die. They will get burnt, drown, fall down stairs, strangle ect. A 4-6 year old might run into traffic and die, a 6-12 year old might swallow some poison, a 13-18 year old might get pregnant, or speed and die in a car, or drink and die, a 18-25+ might show up late for work and lose their job.
An analofy would be...First you need to carry your kid to go places, then you can allow them to walk...but you hold thier hand, becuase they would fall often, and would get hurt if not, then they get better at walking, and you don't need to hold their hand, so you put them on a leesh. You tell them not to run, but they do anyways and they fall and scrape their knee and you love them and fix them up and tell them you told them not to run, that is what happens when you don't listen. Then you see them getting strong and you allow them to run, you give them a ton of slack on the leesh so they can run all over, but you still have them on a leesh because you don't want them to run into traffic and get hit. Everytime you see them run towards traffic you yank on that leesh (punish them out of love and correcting instruction) to protect them and teach them. Then you see them look both ways for traffic and you no longer need a leesh, they are free to go many places, but, you still have to watch them, you are always there. They walk up to a stranger offering them candy and you punish them, they walk down a dark alley at night, you punish them, teach them whey it isn't wise to do those things, what bad things could happen to them. Then you notice them making good descisions, not walking down dark alleys ect. Then you give them a car but give them curfews ect. Then when you see they can handle those, you allow them to stay out as late as they want. Though you have a talk with them, find out why they want to go out late, what are they going to do, could they start earlier and finish ealier. Then they move out, into the rieal world, and you hope their instruction help them be sucessfull and make wise deiscions.
You started out very controlling, and ended up quite 'relaxed'. Teen years are probably the most difficult, and require a very fine balance in between them both. Which if you communicated and taught by example as they grew up, you might not have such a quite hard time. Some parents actually can't trust thie teens...because you don't know them, and you didn't instruct them nore discipline them and so they don't know how to act.
But communiscation, encouragment and time spent with them is huge too.
If you raised them right as a small kid, then as a teen, you should be able to trust them. This is point in life where controlling can be bad, the 1950's view of parenting. If you are controlling, it tells the teen, you don't trust them for one. If you make all the descisions for them, one they never learn to make descisions, or mistakes (and learn from them) and two, it is all about you, not them. If you tell a 16 year old daughter not to date she hears...Well, my dad doesn't trust me, so two things will happen. One, she will rebel and date anyways (probalby the wrong guy and get hurt) and resent you or two, she will resent you and not date. But when she is 18 and moves out, still resenting you, she will not know how to make good descisions, and date the wrong guys for the wrong reasons and get hurt. Both of them resenting you and not helping her out.
Or the other extreme, too relaxed. you tell your 16 year old son, I don't care if you drink or smoke, do whatever you want. Or lying to them with blind undeserving encouragment. They think, ok, so they don't care about me. So they do whatever they want and they are unwise at this age and screw up and you aren't there to help them, the learn from the school of hard knocks. And they make terrible descisons and some get lucky and become an adult and hit rock bottom and turn around and figure how to succeed, no thanks to their good for nothing parents. Had their parents loved and cared for them and instructed and punihsed them, they would have learned these lessons much eaiser and been way ahead of where they are now. Or they thing they are the greatest thing every and their crap don't stink because that is what you taught them. They make terrible descisions and the consequiences seem hidden from them and they never learn, because you taught them to blame anyone/everyone else and not take responsibility.
Now take the 16 year old girl and say, you can date, I just want you to know that you should chose x and y because of z and w. Then let them either listen and suceed, of not and get mildly hurt. Bet better for her to get hurt slightly by a guy now while you are there to pick her up and 'love her back to health', then to end up pregnant and divorced later and you aren't there to help. This is trust, she isn't you, let her be herself, you should have trained her properly growing up, trust in that. You might be surprised at the great descisions she makes.
Kids will live up to the expectation of their parents. It is a self fulfilling prophesy.
Also being too controlling can send a messege of you don't love them, it is all about what you want. Example...Say a 9 year old boy want to help repair something on the house. You ask for his help, great so far.... and then you see the boy, not doing anything ensafe, but doing it completly wrong. So you being mr awesome/perfect, say, let me do this, and then you fix it perfectly. You tought your son, one, that he is stupid and can't do anything right, and two, he never learned how to do it right and three, the object you fixed is more important than he is.
Or lets do too relaxed. Well, one, he realizes you don't care about him if he gets hurt, he actually does get hurt, and the object never gets fixed and he never learns how to and never impreoves. Or if you blindly praise, he will never improve, and he will think he is awesome at anything and the first time he is told elsewise by a realist, he is either in denial and angry/defensive or gets depressed and kills himself.
Now this time, you let him try to fix it, still giving him advice, making sure he is safe with the tools. But this time it ends up a little crooked. You tell him good job, it isn't perfect, but next time he trys to do this task, try this technique, it can help yeild better results. Now you tell the boy, he is smart, he learns how to do this better and he is valueable to you. This object may not be 100% right, but your boy learned, you value you boy more than this object and your pride of doing something you can easily do perfectly. Again a fine balance of control (for safety and guidance) and relaxed (allow them to have the expereince and mess up if they do).
Punishment is another term for insruction. We are to instruct our children, sometimes that is through pain, as pain resonates with the younger child who can't comprehend verbal instruction as well, sometimes it is depraiving them of a joy temporatirily, sometimes it is a stern talking to. But never should it be out of anger, that just tells a kid you dislike them and they suck, and since you expect them to suck and mess up, they will keep sukcing and messing up as again, kids live up to thei parents expectations of them.
TL;DR In bold
I think we all agree hitting a child out of anger is wrong and know what 'bad parenting' is. But it is when people try to be 'good parents' but don't know how to be that is the issue... Maybe is was how their parents were and they "turned out all right" so they use the same, or they didn't get along with their parents and so they try the opposite?
There is a scale for parenting. And with many things in life, the extremes of things aren't that good, a balance can be hard to find, but desirable.
The left extreme with which you speak of is 'hands off', and the right extreme side is controlling.
There are stages in a child life too which changed our parentying strategy. IMO, we should start right and work left. When a kid is a baby, you need to be controlling, or they will die. They will get burnt, drown, fall down stairs, strangle ect. A 4-6 year old might run into traffic and die, a 6-12 year old might swallow some poison, a 13-18 year old might get pregnant, or speed and die in a car, or drink and die, a 18-25+ might show up late for work and lose their job.
An analofy would be...First you need to carry your kid to go places, then you can allow them to walk...but you hold thier hand, becuase they would fall often, and would get hurt if not, then they get better at walking, and you don't need to hold their hand, so you put them on a leesh. You tell them not to run, but they do anyways and they fall and scrape their knee and you love them and fix them up and tell them you told them not to run, that is what happens when you don't listen. Then you see them getting strong and you allow them to run, you give them a ton of slack on the leesh so they can run all over, but you still have them on a leesh because you don't want them to run into traffic and get hit. Everytime you see them run towards traffic you yank on that leesh (punish them out of love and correcting instruction) to protect them and teach them. Then you see them look both ways for traffic and you no longer need a leesh, they are free to go many places, but, you still have to watch them, you are always there. They walk up to a stranger offering them candy and you punish them, they walk down a dark alley at night, you punish them, teach them whey it isn't wise to do those things, what bad things could happen to them. Then you notice them making good descisions, not walking down dark alleys ect. Then you give them a car but give them curfews ect. Then when you see they can handle those, you allow them to stay out as late as they want. Though you have a talk with them, find out why they want to go out late, what are they going to do, could they start earlier and finish ealier. Then they move out, into the rieal world, and you hope their instruction help them be sucessfull and make wise deiscions.
You started out very controlling, and ended up quite 'relaxed'. Teen years are probably the most difficult, and require a very fine balance in between them both. Which if you communicated and taught by example as they grew up, you might not have such a quite hard time. Some parents actually can't trust thie teens...because you don't know them, and you didn't instruct them nore discipline them and so they don't know how to act.
But communiscation, encouragment and time spent with them is huge too.
If you raised them right as a small kid, then as a teen, you should be able to trust them. This is point in life where controlling can be bad, the 1950's view of parenting. If you are controlling, it tells the teen, you don't trust them for one. If you make all the descisions for them, one they never learn to make descisions, or mistakes (and learn from them) and two, it is all about you, not them. If you tell a 16 year old daughter not to date she hears...Well, my dad doesn't trust me, so two things will happen. One, she will rebel and date anyways (probalby the wrong guy and get hurt) and resent you or two, she will resent you and not date. But when she is 18 and moves out, still resenting you, she will not know how to make good descisions, and date the wrong guys for the wrong reasons and get hurt. Both of them resenting you and not helping her out.
Or the other extreme, too relaxed. you tell your 16 year old son, I don't care if you drink or smoke, do whatever you want. Or lying to them with blind undeserving encouragment. They think, ok, so they don't care about me. So they do whatever they want and they are unwise at this age and screw up and you aren't there to help them, the learn from the school of hard knocks. And they make terrible descisons and some get lucky and become an adult and hit rock bottom and turn around and figure how to succeed, no thanks to their good for nothing parents. Had their parents loved and cared for them and instructed and punihsed them, they would have learned these lessons much eaiser and been way ahead of where they are now. Or they thing they are the greatest thing every and their crap don't stink because that is what you taught them. They make terrible descisions and the consequiences seem hidden from them and they never learn, because you taught them to blame anyone/everyone else and not take responsibility.
Now take the 16 year old girl and say, you can date, I just want you to know that you should chose x and y because of z and w. Then let them either listen and suceed, of not and get mildly hurt. Bet better for her to get hurt slightly by a guy now while you are there to pick her up and 'love her back to health', then to end up pregnant and divorced later and you aren't there to help. This is trust, she isn't you, let her be herself, you should have trained her properly growing up, trust in that. You might be surprised at the great descisions she makes.
Kids will live up to the expectation of their parents. It is a self fulfilling prophesy.
Also being too controlling can send a messege of you don't love them, it is all about what you want. Example...Say a 9 year old boy want to help repair something on the house. You ask for his help, great so far.... and then you see the boy, not doing anything ensafe, but doing it completly wrong. So you being mr awesome/perfect, say, let me do this, and then you fix it perfectly. You tought your son, one, that he is stupid and can't do anything right, and two, he never learned how to do it right and three, the object you fixed is more important than he is.
Or lets do too relaxed. Well, one, he realizes you don't care about him if he gets hurt, he actually does get hurt, and the object never gets fixed and he never learns how to and never impreoves. Or if you blindly praise, he will never improve, and he will think he is awesome at anything and the first time he is told elsewise by a realist, he is either in denial and angry/defensive or gets depressed and kills himself.
Now this time, you let him try to fix it, still giving him advice, making sure he is safe with the tools. But this time it ends up a little crooked. You tell him good job, it isn't perfect, but next time he trys to do this task, try this technique, it can help yeild better results. Now you tell the boy, he is smart, he learns how to do this better and he is valueable to you. This object may not be 100% right, but your boy learned, you value you boy more than this object and your pride of doing something you can easily do perfectly. Again a fine balance of control (for safety and guidance) and relaxed (allow them to have the expereince and mess up if they do).
Punishment is another term for insruction. We are to instruct our children, sometimes that is through pain, as pain resonates with the younger child who can't comprehend verbal instruction as well, sometimes it is depraiving them of a joy temporatirily, sometimes it is a stern talking to. But never should it be out of anger, that just tells a kid you dislike them and they suck, and since you expect them to suck and mess up, they will keep sukcing and messing up as again, kids live up to thei parents expectations of them.
TL;DR In bold
