Christmas Or Holiday?
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Being politically correct can be a positive thing until it begins to choke out out constitutional right to free speech. MANY, and I mean MANY workers are not allowed to wish someone a Merry Christmas. Think of all the shopping you have done so far and how many times you hear Happy Holidays and not Merry Christmas. I do not attent church and actually do not believe in religion. I believe in spirituality, but, hey, Christmas will always be Christmas to me. A Christmas tree will always be a Christmas Tree. I mean really, Christmas has become so commercialized, at least in this country, that most people miss the religious aspect of the day anyways. For most people it is simply a time to come together, meet family and friends that have been absent in our lives, hope and wish for peace and happiness, and look forward to the New year. I think that this PC bullshit just gives people something to raise a "cause" over.
oh, and by the way.......... Merry Christmas RDTiburon!!!! smile.gif tongue.gif nana.gif smile.gif
oh, and by the way.......... Merry Christmas RDTiburon!!!! smile.gif tongue.gif nana.gif smile.gif
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I think all this is BS, we get too worked up too easily. Some ppl just think friggin weird, I will never understand it.
Btw, for me Christma.,...oh crap...
....Holiday-mas = go-drive-up-89A-over-mingus-mountain-as-fast-as-I-want-hitting-every-Apex-since-no-one-is-driving-around
-on-Chris, oh fuck I mean-Holiday-mas-morning. wink1.gif
Btw, for me Christma.,...oh crap...
....Holiday-mas = go-drive-up-89A-over-mingus-mountain-as-fast-as-I-want-hitting-every-Apex-since-no-one-is-driving-around
-on-Chris, oh fuck I mean-Holiday-mas-morning. wink1.gif
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QUOTE (Joshuwa @ Dec 12 2005, 04:57 AM)
Seems like everyone's got it out for Christians nowadays.
Like a poster above said...if we have to call it a holiday tree, that better be a holiday dradle I see you spinning, and ramadan? pfft...that's a holiday fasting.
Pretty soon, all of religion is going to be gone, just because it upsets those who aren't part of it. Boo hoo!
If the word "christmas" upsets you, you've got issues. No one forces anyone to celibrate it.
The US is a Christian nation. It was founded on Christianity, and Christianity is the prevailing religion in this country. Everyone who's here knows that, and everyone who's coming does too. If you don't like the religion of a place you're going, you might want to consider that before you get there.
Nothing but hipocracy. It's a long the same lines of gay pride day, and gay marches. Throw a straight pride march, and just watch people protest and throw a fit.
It's OK for the minority group to celibrate whatever they want and call it by whatever they want, but when the majority does it, it's wrong? That's backwards my friends.
I'll continue putting up my christmas tree regardless of how awful the minority thinks of it, and I will never call it by any other name.
No one can argue for Christmas getting a name changed unless theyre willing to change the names of their own religous holidays.
ahh..enough..people make me sick....
Like a poster above said...if we have to call it a holiday tree, that better be a holiday dradle I see you spinning, and ramadan? pfft...that's a holiday fasting.
Pretty soon, all of religion is going to be gone, just because it upsets those who aren't part of it. Boo hoo!
If the word "christmas" upsets you, you've got issues. No one forces anyone to celibrate it.
The US is a Christian nation. It was founded on Christianity, and Christianity is the prevailing religion in this country. Everyone who's here knows that, and everyone who's coming does too. If you don't like the religion of a place you're going, you might want to consider that before you get there.
Nothing but hipocracy. It's a long the same lines of gay pride day, and gay marches. Throw a straight pride march, and just watch people protest and throw a fit.
It's OK for the minority group to celibrate whatever they want and call it by whatever they want, but when the majority does it, it's wrong? That's backwards my friends.
I'll continue putting up my christmas tree regardless of how awful the minority thinks of it, and I will never call it by any other name.
No one can argue for Christmas getting a name changed unless theyre willing to change the names of their own religous holidays.
ahh..enough..people make me sick....
exactly...
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From: Michigan
QUOTE (Sparticus @ Dec 12 2005, 01:03 AM)
actually, alot of non-Christians disagree w/ the "holiday tree" stuff.
you can't generalize terms for everyone when these terms are specific to a religion. its ubsurd
you can't generalize terms for everyone when these terms are specific to a religion. its ubsurd
While I do agree, I'm also pretty certain that it's not the devout Christians who started and support the idea of a a "holiday" tree.
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Not going into the "merry Christmas/ Happy holidays" debate... but sometimes a bit of history is in order.
The use of evergreens during the Winter Solstice (december 21/22) goes back to the Ancient Egyptions and Romans. During those less than scientific times, it was thought that the sun god became ill during fall and the shortest day of the year was the day that he would finally start to get better. The Egyptions would bring Green Palms into their house to celebrate that Ra had finally thrown off his illness and was beginning to get batter.
The Romans held "Saturnalia" on the 22nd, to celebrate their god of Agriculture... They Decorated their homes and temples with Evergreen Boughs.
Moving further north, the Mysterious Druids also decorated their temples with evergreens while the Norse believed that evergreens were a special plant of their Sun god, Balder.
The Christmas Tree itself comes from Germany. In the 16th century, devot Christians began bringing decorated trees and evergreen boughs into their homes. It is a widely held beliefe that Martin Luther (founder of the Protestant movement) was the first to introduce lit candles to the tree. It is said that walking one night he saw the stars through the pinetrees and wanted to share his sense of wonder with his family.
Moving ahead, it was not until the mid 1800s that the Christmas Tree made it to america. First being seen in the German Settlers in Pennsylvania. Even then, it was considered a "pagan" symbol by most Americans and was actually banned (along with all other frivolties associated with Christmas like Decorations, singing, and anything besides Mass) in the New England States.
It was not until England's Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were sketched in 1847 with their family infront of a decorated Christmas Tree in the London News that the "Tradition" of the Christmas Tree took off. Queen Victoria was popular both in England and Abroad. Anything she and te Royal Family did would immediatly become the fashionable thing to do...
so, the History of the Christmas tree in a nutshell. From Ancient Egyptions, Romans, and pagans through to the Royal Family of Britain to your home... it has a longer and more convulated history than most people realise... and is far more Pagan than most Christans would care to admit.
The use of evergreens during the Winter Solstice (december 21/22) goes back to the Ancient Egyptions and Romans. During those less than scientific times, it was thought that the sun god became ill during fall and the shortest day of the year was the day that he would finally start to get better. The Egyptions would bring Green Palms into their house to celebrate that Ra had finally thrown off his illness and was beginning to get batter.
The Romans held "Saturnalia" on the 22nd, to celebrate their god of Agriculture... They Decorated their homes and temples with Evergreen Boughs.
Moving further north, the Mysterious Druids also decorated their temples with evergreens while the Norse believed that evergreens were a special plant of their Sun god, Balder.
The Christmas Tree itself comes from Germany. In the 16th century, devot Christians began bringing decorated trees and evergreen boughs into their homes. It is a widely held beliefe that Martin Luther (founder of the Protestant movement) was the first to introduce lit candles to the tree. It is said that walking one night he saw the stars through the pinetrees and wanted to share his sense of wonder with his family.
Moving ahead, it was not until the mid 1800s that the Christmas Tree made it to america. First being seen in the German Settlers in Pennsylvania. Even then, it was considered a "pagan" symbol by most Americans and was actually banned (along with all other frivolties associated with Christmas like Decorations, singing, and anything besides Mass) in the New England States.
It was not until England's Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were sketched in 1847 with their family infront of a decorated Christmas Tree in the London News that the "Tradition" of the Christmas Tree took off. Queen Victoria was popular both in England and Abroad. Anything she and te Royal Family did would immediatly become the fashionable thing to do...
so, the History of the Christmas tree in a nutshell. From Ancient Egyptions, Romans, and pagans through to the Royal Family of Britain to your home... it has a longer and more convulated history than most people realise... and is far more Pagan than most Christans would care to admit.
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^ you left out quite a bit of history there. Christmas is not pagan at all. It's not what many people think, but it is no means pagan.
The christmass tree was used for other purposes before Christmas, but Christians adopted it during the times of Roman persocution to avoid jail, beatings, and death.
During the times of the Roman empire, before Constantine, when the Roman emperors still worshipped their Gods, they outlawed the worship of any other God. Christianity was against the law, and many Christians were crucified, beaten, jailed, etc for their beleifs.
For this reason, Christians who would not give up their religion met in secret to worship Christ. They often met in the catacombs beneath the city. They even painted the catacombs during this time. The often painted Sheppards all over, and always refered to Christ as 'the Sheppard.' This way, the Romans wouldn't know what they were talking about and they might avoid persocution.
Christmas is intended to celibrate the birth of Jesus Christ. But Jesus was not born on December 25 - he wasn't even born during the winter. But if the Christians celibrated Jesus' actual birthday, the Roman's would know, they'd be found out, and persocuted.
To avoid that, and still celibrate the birth of Christ, the Christians incoproated their religious celibration with what the Romans were already doing with "christmas" trees. In this way, it would appear as if they were just typical Romans.
But the Christians knew what they were doing, and they began celibrating the birth of Christ on December 25th, mixing in with the Romans.
Slowly but surely, Christianity gained more acceptance in Rome, and when Constantine came into power, he later became a Christian and removed the ban on Christianity. Christians no longer had a reason to hide their celibration, and the Christmass tree and all it's religous meaning continued till this very day.
So while the actual tree may have started out with nothing to do with Christ, it has become a very religous thing, and is very symbolic to Christians. By the time the Christmas tree reached America (looong before), it had already developed itself as a religous symbol, and it's Christian roots are present till this very day.
The christmass tree was used for other purposes before Christmas, but Christians adopted it during the times of Roman persocution to avoid jail, beatings, and death.
During the times of the Roman empire, before Constantine, when the Roman emperors still worshipped their Gods, they outlawed the worship of any other God. Christianity was against the law, and many Christians were crucified, beaten, jailed, etc for their beleifs.
For this reason, Christians who would not give up their religion met in secret to worship Christ. They often met in the catacombs beneath the city. They even painted the catacombs during this time. The often painted Sheppards all over, and always refered to Christ as 'the Sheppard.' This way, the Romans wouldn't know what they were talking about and they might avoid persocution.
Christmas is intended to celibrate the birth of Jesus Christ. But Jesus was not born on December 25 - he wasn't even born during the winter. But if the Christians celibrated Jesus' actual birthday, the Roman's would know, they'd be found out, and persocuted.
To avoid that, and still celibrate the birth of Christ, the Christians incoproated their religious celibration with what the Romans were already doing with "christmas" trees. In this way, it would appear as if they were just typical Romans.
But the Christians knew what they were doing, and they began celibrating the birth of Christ on December 25th, mixing in with the Romans.
Slowly but surely, Christianity gained more acceptance in Rome, and when Constantine came into power, he later became a Christian and removed the ban on Christianity. Christians no longer had a reason to hide their celibration, and the Christmass tree and all it's religous meaning continued till this very day.
So while the actual tree may have started out with nothing to do with Christ, it has become a very religous thing, and is very symbolic to Christians. By the time the Christmas tree reached America (looong before), it had already developed itself as a religous symbol, and it's Christian roots are present till this very day.
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From: SOUTH Jersey
Not to start a war here... but way back when, Christianity was MUCH more aggressive in it's tactics. When it encountered a religious or ethinic group it had not met before, it would adopt many of that group's symbols, holidays, and even some of their religious trappings into their own so as to "Convert" the new group into Christianity.
The Christmas Tree is a Prime Example. As I stated in my (very) brief post.. it existed as a Symbol of the Winter Solstice long before it was adopted by Christianity.
The Christmas Tree is a Prime Example. As I stated in my (very) brief post.. it existed as a Symbol of the Winter Solstice long before it was adopted by Christianity.
