Civilized Debate Air Ram Vs. Stock
08-12-2007, 01:21 PM
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ok, i want to start a little civilized topic about the AIR RAM and debating how much its really worth, and how much it would be a benefit in any application.
I know the AIR RAM is rare and all, and I know people have the right to sell it for whatever they want. I just hate to see people buying something that they think is so UBER awesome when its really not. People are snatching these things up for anywhere from 660$ - 800$ used.. just because they are rare. my question is: WHY?
The AIR RAM is better then a stock IM thats for sure, both in N/A applications and in turbo applications, but is it any better than a ported stock IM?
PROS/CONS
the only benefit I can see that an AIR RAM will significantly have over stock bored/ported IM (on an N/A application) is that the runners are longer, which would increase the top end power. at the same time, both low and mid range rpms would probably have a loss over the modified stock IM. you can get a stock manifold ported/polished/bored for probably 250$ at a local shop.
On a turbo setup the AIR RAM would be better than a stock manifold, but with the long runners i would doubt it would be better than a good modded stocker. Its a general rule of thumb that the shorter the runners on a turbo IM, the better, since the air is being forced in as opposed to being sucked in.
As JohnGTR stated, the size of the stock runners is big enough to support anything that anyone can throw at it.
LOOKS
another benefit the AIR RAM has to some people is the 'bling factor'. well yeah, i sure would hope a 550$ piece of performance equipment would look really nice compared to a stock cast piece of aluminum. an AIR RAM will always look better than a STOCK IM no matter what you do to the stock IM, but is it really worth it.
MY OVERALL THOUGHT
And just for the record, I have the AIR RAM and have used it on both my N/A application and my turbo application. I obviously noticed a difference over my old stock IM. The STOCK IM (no work done) on N/A is a pretty significant difference in sound and the upper rpms. its a good manifold, but not even CLOSE to worth upwards of 650$. on my turbo app. it works for my needs, i couldn't compare it to stock, as i have never had a stock IM on my car with turbo.
some of the sellers of the AIR RAM say this: 'its so UBER rare, its badass, get one before you can never get em again'.
well yeah its rare, Rside coudn't sell enough of them to make it worth their time, so they stopped making them. If these manifolds are SOO good, why are people getting rid of them? seems that you see an AIR RAM listed for sale every couple of weeks.
wonder why? o yeah, so people can jack up the prices and make a huge profit off of them.
no one bought these manifolds when they were readily available because they thought the price was too high, but yet are willing to pay between 110-200$ over the price that they were sold for.
please add your thoughts, and lets keep this thing civil.
ps: if anyone wants a legit deal on an AIR RAM, i will be willing to sell mine with trade of your stock IM for a decent price.
I know the AIR RAM is rare and all, and I know people have the right to sell it for whatever they want. I just hate to see people buying something that they think is so UBER awesome when its really not. People are snatching these things up for anywhere from 660$ - 800$ used.. just because they are rare. my question is: WHY?
The AIR RAM is better then a stock IM thats for sure, both in N/A applications and in turbo applications, but is it any better than a ported stock IM?
PROS/CONS
the only benefit I can see that an AIR RAM will significantly have over stock bored/ported IM (on an N/A application) is that the runners are longer, which would increase the top end power. at the same time, both low and mid range rpms would probably have a loss over the modified stock IM. you can get a stock manifold ported/polished/bored for probably 250$ at a local shop.
On a turbo setup the AIR RAM would be better than a stock manifold, but with the long runners i would doubt it would be better than a good modded stocker. Its a general rule of thumb that the shorter the runners on a turbo IM, the better, since the air is being forced in as opposed to being sucked in.
As JohnGTR stated, the size of the stock runners is big enough to support anything that anyone can throw at it.
LOOKS
another benefit the AIR RAM has to some people is the 'bling factor'. well yeah, i sure would hope a 550$ piece of performance equipment would look really nice compared to a stock cast piece of aluminum. an AIR RAM will always look better than a STOCK IM no matter what you do to the stock IM, but is it really worth it.
MY OVERALL THOUGHT
And just for the record, I have the AIR RAM and have used it on both my N/A application and my turbo application. I obviously noticed a difference over my old stock IM. The STOCK IM (no work done) on N/A is a pretty significant difference in sound and the upper rpms. its a good manifold, but not even CLOSE to worth upwards of 650$. on my turbo app. it works for my needs, i couldn't compare it to stock, as i have never had a stock IM on my car with turbo.
some of the sellers of the AIR RAM say this: 'its so UBER rare, its badass, get one before you can never get em again'.
well yeah its rare, Rside coudn't sell enough of them to make it worth their time, so they stopped making them. If these manifolds are SOO good, why are people getting rid of them? seems that you see an AIR RAM listed for sale every couple of weeks.
wonder why? o yeah, so people can jack up the prices and make a huge profit off of them.
no one bought these manifolds when they were readily available because they thought the price was too high, but yet are willing to pay between 110-200$ over the price that they were sold for.
please add your thoughts, and lets keep this thing civil.
ps: if anyone wants a legit deal on an AIR RAM, i will be willing to sell mine with trade of your stock IM for a decent price.
08-12-2007, 02:12 PM
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Well one real advantage of the Airram is the fact it has a much larger opening for the throttle body, and the shape of the phlenum gives the furthest cylinder the same flow as the first cylinder.
And the Smoothness of the inside of airram is unmatchable, you can polish the inside of the stock manifold but theres no way to make it as smooth or as uniform regardless of the quality job you do.
Im not saying the Airram is perfect, and i definatly think that there could be a much better turbo manifold for us, but we have to take what we can get.
i think it was worth the $500 price, and if somebody's willing to pay $800 for it then let them.
Theres alot of things that sell for alot of money that shouldnt but its all about supply and demand, supply is obviously limited and demand happens to be high, it only makes sense that the price jumps.
Ive polished the outside of mine to a mirror shine (covers some of that bling factor) and I p/p'ed the inside runners and bored out the TB and i definatly noticed a gain and im completely happy with it, but the gain was more noticable on the airram on selinas car. Is it enough of a gain to warrant the price? i dunno, swift paid ~500 so im sure she'd say it was.
But about your airram if in the future your looking to swap mine for yours + some cash id be interested
And the Smoothness of the inside of airram is unmatchable, you can polish the inside of the stock manifold but theres no way to make it as smooth or as uniform regardless of the quality job you do.
Im not saying the Airram is perfect, and i definatly think that there could be a much better turbo manifold for us, but we have to take what we can get.
i think it was worth the $500 price, and if somebody's willing to pay $800 for it then let them.
Theres alot of things that sell for alot of money that shouldnt but its all about supply and demand, supply is obviously limited and demand happens to be high, it only makes sense that the price jumps.
Ive polished the outside of mine to a mirror shine (covers some of that bling factor) and I p/p'ed the inside runners and bored out the TB and i definatly noticed a gain and im completely happy with it, but the gain was more noticable on the airram on selinas car. Is it enough of a gain to warrant the price? i dunno, swift paid ~500 so im sure she'd say it was.
But about your airram if in the future your looking to swap mine for yours + some cash id be interested
08-12-2007, 02:38 PM
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will keep that in mind alex..
thanks for your point in here about AIR RAM vs. modded stock on turbo.. it actually is really helpful to me, cuz i had no way to compare.
so even though the theory of the air ram not being as good as modded stock because of runners, it seems to show from what you said, that its better than a modded stocker. must be a good amount better, if you can actually notice the difference.
thanks for your point in here about AIR RAM vs. modded stock on turbo.. it actually is really helpful to me, cuz i had no way to compare.
so even though the theory of the air ram not being as good as modded stock because of runners, it seems to show from what you said, that its better than a modded stocker. must be a good amount better, if you can actually notice the difference.
08-12-2007, 03:08 PM
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Larger runners
Longer runners
Velocity stack
Larger opening for TB
Smoother
Polished
Run a flow test Airram vs stock IM, I guarantee the Airram wins by a LOT.
I also have one and agree that it is worth the $550 I paid for it. Not sure if I could justify spending $800 though.
Longer runners
Velocity stack
Larger opening for TB
Smoother
Polished
Run a flow test Airram vs stock IM, I guarantee the Airram wins by a LOT.
I also have one and agree that it is worth the $550 I paid for it. Not sure if I could justify spending $800 though.
08-12-2007, 03:22 PM
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I can say this. I'd like to get an Air Ram and would pay about 500$ for one, but for 800$?!? Get a P&P job, and a niceeee turbo, then you will destroy that Air Ram. Unless you have thousands into your engine and have literally MAXED out your stock engine for every freaking horse you can squeeze, then why the hell would you buy one? I'm just playing both sides here.
08-12-2007, 03:35 PM
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yeah, some people pay 500$ for exhaust, just for the name.. you can get a badass custom exhaust for under 300$..
for 800$ you could upgrade your head and cams, im sure that would yield better results, but thats not the discussion here.
as alex stated though, theres a noticable positive difference to a modded stock manifold on a turbo car, compared to an AIR RAM on turbo car. that about says enough for me.
i still can't see it being worth anywhere close to even 650$ though. the differences in a DIY, or 250$ port/polish/bore job on stock IM and AIR RAM would be so minor to anyone on here, theres no way it would be worth it in a performance aspect. (considering N/A setup)
and zoned to your part of the debate, i would like to point some things out
Larger runners < stock runners polished, would flow more than enough for anything anyone on here could throw at it, not really a positive to air ram
Longer runners <good for the top end response, but bad for low, mid response
Velocity stack <biggest benefit on air ram
Larger opening for TB <stock can EASILY be bored out
Smoother <stock can be polished.
Polished
for 800$ you could upgrade your head and cams, im sure that would yield better results, but thats not the discussion here.
as alex stated though, theres a noticable positive difference to a modded stock manifold on a turbo car, compared to an AIR RAM on turbo car. that about says enough for me.
i still can't see it being worth anywhere close to even 650$ though. the differences in a DIY, or 250$ port/polish/bore job on stock IM and AIR RAM would be so minor to anyone on here, theres no way it would be worth it in a performance aspect. (considering N/A setup)
and zoned to your part of the debate, i would like to point some things out
Larger runners < stock runners polished, would flow more than enough for anything anyone on here could throw at it, not really a positive to air ram
Longer runners <good for the top end response, but bad for low, mid response
Velocity stack <biggest benefit on air ram
Larger opening for TB <stock can EASILY be bored out
Smoother <stock can be polished.
Polished
08-12-2007, 03:38 PM
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As far as polishing the stock one to get the same smoothness, like i said you'd have a hard time matching the uniform and super smooth surface of the inside of the airram. Yeah, you could make the stocker better, but not as good.
Remember too, all the curves and the bumps, curves, and obstructions in the stock intake manifold would create restrictions at real high CFMs
check out these pics, and compare the smoothness
Yah, i just googled prices for a polished turbo intake manifold for a civic
Price
D Series GIM100-P $799.00
B16/17 GIM101-P $850.00
B18A/B LS GIM102-P $850.00
B18C GSR GIM103-P $850.00
Granted there were some cheapies that wee 4-500 but all the good manifolds that looked great and boasted great numbers were 700+
Honestly, if i had the cash, id dyno my tib at a set boost fine tune, then swap my P/P IM for the AirRam and set it at the same boost and fine tune. But i dont have that kinda cash lol
Remember too, all the curves and the bumps, curves, and obstructions in the stock intake manifold would create restrictions at real high CFMs
check out these pics, and compare the smoothness
Yah, i just googled prices for a polished turbo intake manifold for a civic
Price
D Series GIM100-P $799.00
B16/17 GIM101-P $850.00
B18A/B LS GIM102-P $850.00
B18C GSR GIM103-P $850.00
Granted there were some cheapies that wee 4-500 but all the good manifolds that looked great and boasted great numbers were 700+
Honestly, if i had the cash, id dyno my tib at a set boost fine tune, then swap my P/P IM for the AirRam and set it at the same boost and fine tune. But i dont have that kinda cash lol