Koreandude

Hey guys, i'm interested in swapping in a BETA I 2.0 in my '97 to take place of my kinda hi milage 1.8l BETA I (108k). My delima is quite simple... will my current ECU work with a 2.0? Will i have to stick with the same model year? If so i doubt i'll find a 2.0l BETA with around 30-40k from a 97. I just imagined dropping in a 2.0l and bolting everything up without any other mess. Is this fesable?? I'm just a little dissapointed with my 120 whp on my 97 1.8 BETA. I have the intake, SR 421 header, Carsound cat and 2.25 exhaust mods done and cysco00 dyno's 120.8 whp on his motor with 106k with only an intake. I think it's great but with my 1.8l i'll always be 10 whp behind everyone. I'm sure my 17's don't help but what do you guys think.. Can i re-use my ECU with a 2.0???

Red

It should be fine; the fueling differences should be fairly negligable and the MAF sensor will take care of most of it anyway.

Koreandude

Well Red, it sounds to me your saying "yea, it'll work" but i know plenty of people that have engines that "work" but their idle sucks, back fires, blows smoke sometime, CEL's up the cheeks and really doesn't appreciate WOT. I know your not madaam clio but am i going to expect any of these symptoms? I'm sure an SAFC will correct any fuel anamolies and add performance however the time/money involved may not be available. As a matter of fact, i'm not sure what model year 2.0l BETA's will work or how much i can expect to pay for one with installation costs.. Any ideas?? (rhetorical question wink )

Red

All I can offer you is "it should work". I have no proof, no verification, no previous experience to draw from and no related stories to give you. It should work, that is all. The engines are not different enough to necessitate radically different fuel curves, ignition timing changes or environmental calculation changes (coolant temp, air temp, and similar calculated fuel and ignition changes)

Since all the outboard sensors are the same between the 1.8 and 2.0 (MAF, coolant temp, air temp, TPS, crank position, cam angle, road speed, etc) then the ECU swap should be harmless.

That's all I can offer. Unless you know someone who has specifically swapped a 1.8L ECU into their 2.0L setup, you really could provide no better information than me anyway.

Koreandude

Alrighty, so the theory is sound. So any 2.0l BETA I should bolt in?

On Another note, i did a search on this and nothing really conclusive came up on this matter but i did hear an argument that the 1.8l has the potential to rev higher due to its shorter stroke/longer rods. Some also said it would make a better turbo motor which is something i thought about doing. Any reason i should stick with my 1.8l???

Red

The general operating theory is that the 1.8L would make a better revver, which would in-turn perhaps offer a bit more for a turbo motor too if you need a few hundred more RPM's to get that turbo fully spooled...

The 1.8L uses the same block as the 2.0L, but uses a shorter stroke crankshaft, longer rods and slightly different pistons. While we have no conclusive proof, the general estimation given what we do know would lead us to believe that the 1.8L enjoys a rod/stroke ratio very close to the theoretically "perfect" 1.75:1.

This gives the engine much more potential for revving high without huge sidewall loading of the cylinder sleeves. Of course, there are still limitations, such as the cylinder head design, valve springs, port design, etc.

Koreandude

Well, damn. I may change my plans then. What do you think of buying a 1.8l and building it up?? I'd hope it would be cheaper than a 2.0l long block. Maybe i could just get a 1.8l block and forget the head. naaa. I'd miss out on gasket port matching the intake manifold, extrude honing, and possibly cams if i decide to ditch the turbo deal. You're a freakin genious Red. yeeeeeah, a super 1.8l. Hey at least i won't have to worry about the ecu! Any idea where i can source a 1.8l BETA I??

Red

Dunno, your little 1.8L you have now would be fine for a buildup if you had something else to drive for a while.

Because the 1.8L uses different rods and a different crankshaft than the 2.0L, we have no absolute information on their limits. The general suggestion from Australia is that the 1.8L is not far off from it's 2.0L bigger brother so far as strength. Nobody has broken a crank yet on the 1.8L, and the rods seem just as stout as the 2.0L (300whp+) so it shouldn't be a huge issue.

Fun fact: 2.0L pistons in a 1.8L motor will yield around 9.2:1 compression because of the shorter stroke. The 1.8L and 2.0L heads are the same part, so if you already have a BETA head ported, you can use it on your "project"

I know of at least one other person that's building a "monster" 1.8L turbo project, but he's still pretty early in the build. Haltech E11, T04 turbocharger, Crower rods, Ross forged copies of the 2.0L pistons and a few other playtoys.

Koreandude

Hmm, thanks Red. I wish i had another car to drive. Thats why i kinda want to stick with the same family of engines for the sake of simplicity and to minimize the down time. Turbos would be awesome, but i must say reality is kicking me in the nuts. I'm trying to buy a house and i'm getting engaged. I already bought the ring. It cost just as much as a turbo kit. Yeah i think about it all the time. It was a struggle, but i love my girl more than my tibby (only when she's not on her period that is eventhough my tibby feels like it has her days too tongue.gif ). Thanks for your help man. Genius, freakn genius.

Shadohh

Hey red, you mention, the 1.8L has a shorter stroke but longer rods.

Now a 1.8L crank and 2.0L piston gives a 9.2:1 CR?
Is that with 2.0L rods or 1.8L rods.

Could you use the shorter 2.0L rods with the pistons to get an even lower CR ?

If true, would you know what that CR was?