I am going to start my first beta build soon and I need help with the shopping list. Been around here for a while but only lately have I been able to get serious about modding my Tib. However my fact finding mission has turned up a number of questions, it seems that there is a lot of conflicting information out there even after searching the forums. TONS of misinformation in other forums but I'm basing my build off rdt facts. My goals are modest and I have a while to build it all up. I don't need a screaming speed machine but I am going to boost for those fun little weekend cruses. However the Tib has to remain my dd because after he is all fixed I am going after my 944 motor hard. Looking for input from those of you far more experienced than myself.



First of all I keep reading that the beta 2 is a better bottom to start with, is this across the board and do they all mount the same?
I found locally an '05 Spectra motor that's viable as a short block for $200, just need to make sure this will fit the bill so to speak.
Of course this will be a 100% rebuild, I am not one to trust junk yard parts to that extent, plus I plan to use the 1.8L rods. I recall reading this worked with Beta2 as well, just double checking.

For the head I also recall reading (but I can't find the post now) that the Beta1 head flows better. And since the Beta1 block will mate a beta 2 head I am assuming that the opposite is also true. Likewise does anyone have the actually numbers to back up this info? I really can't shouldn't p&p at the time so I want the best bang I can get from the stock device with some cam/valve mods. I have yet to find supporting data sheet for either argument; for instance when I went shopping for head mods for the 944 Dave Lindsey's site was information overload:
Lindsey Racing 944/51 head page
Conversion Chart.jpg
I found quite a few local Beta 1 and 2 (non-CVVT) so either direction I'm covered.
For the Beta2 block+Beta1 head (assumed it's the decided platform) what mods/sensors would be required?

I already have an Elantra 5-speed and clutch kit I'm eying so I can get rid of the dreaded auto, that issue is already covered.

Brakes are coming up, going to tackle the xg350 upgrade at that time.

The sock radiator is still in great condition but will I need more cooling power?

Most of the other goodies in turbo grocery list (timer, smt, injectors, bov, etc) have or are being covered so that's all gravy.

As for exhaust and intake that's already covered long since. I got a guy that I trust for all my piping needs.

I am still on the fence with the Turbo itself, the power hungry side of me wants a "big" 16g but that's $600 for a refurb and I doubt I'll ever see it's real potential. Some input here might be of use.

 

Unless I am way off, the B2 bottom end is about the same with minor oiling changes for the variable valvetrain stuff. Therefore, 1.8L rods will be too short unless you are wanting VERY low compression or are using VERY tall pistons.

I haven't kept up to date on what-all models of cars use what engines, someone else will have to chime in on that.

Heads: either, treated properly, will outflow the other, stock. It would surprise me if the margin of difference between B1 and B2 heads wasn't swallowed up by the nastiness of the machine work that went into the casting in Korea. Some unported examples of either type will likely outflow some examples of the other type, is what I mean - because the stock part is sooooo poorly finished. The main difference is your preference for hydraulic lash adjusters or solid shims between the cams and valves. My guess is that if you care about efficiency at all, and have a close look in the head, you will want to at least give it a quick clean-up with the dremel tool, which would probably make up any difference in flow (if any) between B1 and B2 heads. Have a look at my (old/waiting for funds) head port & polish thread to see what I found in my head. Never mind the flow conversion chart. Getting the ugly protruding casting flash out of the short side radius on the intake side and cleaning up some of the sharp corners around the valve pockets will be plenty if you don't want to go nuts on a 60-hour P&P job.

That webpage is interesting and all, but a lot of it is sales pitch to tell you how great they are. If it spun your head, it was supposed to. People who know what they are talking about could have got most of the information in 1/5 the amount of words they put on there. Don't sweat it.

The sensors in the block are pretty basic. What are there, crank position and oil pressure? Simple. Everything else is on the head or nearby piping. The sensors are small time stuff, and either engine combo should be able to be made to work on an RD without much hassle (note: "much" is relative).

As far as I can tell, most people with mild turbo setups who went to different radiators did so for the extra room, not extra cooling. The stock radiator is designed to be more than good enough for idling in traffic in Phoenix in the middle of summer. A few extra horsepower will likely be no problem, and Water Wetter and a cooler thermostat might be all you need, if it does run warm.

You are willing to do enough research to come up with questions. Those are the really interesting kinds of questions! wink1.gif

 

Thanks much! laugh.gif

I must admit that my evil ulterior motive for the beta 1 head was to retain most of the stock sensors as well so it seems that might be my route. Heck, I have just about replaced all of them in the past 12 months... my blood is on some of them, they are not going any where! icon16.gif If I have to mark them will. I never realized that the manufacturing of the heads was that sloppy but I have some dremel skills so that sounds like a good middle ground. Not terribly worried about the sensors on the block so much after reading the beta2 swap threads, looks like that's not a tremendous deal.

Yeah, Dave's sight is FULL of "zomg we are the best" but he packs his pages just as full with useful info as well. If you scan past all the sales jargon the info he puts forth is very handy. Plus its the only website/tuner shop I know of that you can call any day of the week and Dave, the owner, himself will get on the phone and help troubleshoot. Lindsey Racing is my litmus test for good tuner shops. Besides, his job IS too sell tongue.gif
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That pretty much solves my issue with the head and rad. Found some beta1 heads uber cheap.

 

Depending on how cheap is cheap and condition, we might need to have a chat about you getting me a head. I really only need valves, but hey, it doesn't hurt to ask. . .

 

If you use the stock rad, move the fans to the front of it(push style) and you'll have more room for your header/turbo.,My only head work is that its ported,doesnt really look too polished, new hla's and thats it ,on a beta 1 block,wiseco/pauter.,..that's pretty much all I've done to the heart..

 

Is polishing even worth it? I hear that the edges of the manifold runners being rough helps out atomization of the fuel more then if they are smooth and polished.

 

Intake finished to 80 grit, exhaust polished if you want to go to the trouble but at least smooth the exhaust runners from all the casting junk in there.

 

Stocker, what would the forums do without you? You are the man when it comes to the technical information which every tuner should know. I'm taking notes for the next time I have to remove my intake manifold or have my engine out of the vehicle.

I've heard with pressure, such as in a turbo'd intake, flow issues are usually negated by sheer volume/force. I guess that with a catalytic obstruction in the exhaust there would be pressure on the exhaust ports? Do the exhaust manifold/ports matter?

 

Stocker, there are a few around here circa $100. Not sure about the condition, Id have to go investigate.

 

Meh. I have an arrangement for valves from one of the members for ~1/3 that, but thanks anyhow.

DTN, EVERYTHING matters. Every little bit helps, every little bit hurts. If you were going for 100% performance you would want 100% of what could be done, to be done. Yes the exhaust flow restrictions hurt, but they hurt that 0.001% less when everything else is 0.001% better. With a forced induction setup forcing, there will be more air going through regardless of obstructions, but if someone going turbo had their cylinder head off, I'd say at least do a light cleanup of the nastiness in the casting. I doubt it would be worth the effort if the head were not off already.