Passenger Cv Shaft Joint Stuck Partially In Transmission
07-26-2008, 04:59 AM
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Sorry for not having any pictures now... no camera for right now. Though honestly pictures wouldn't help much.
Here's the situation:
The passenger CV joint on the shaft is stuck partially in the transmission. Its not completely in the transmission (otherwise I'd be a happy camper), its 1.5 to 2 inches out. Absolutely stuck. I can't pry it off, I can't push it in.
The other end of the shaft is completely free. I've disconnected it from the wheel hub, and disconnected the hub from the strut, that side of the shaft is sitting on the ground.
I've tried prying it from as many different angles as I can... can't pry from directly above due to the all the engine stuff being in the way. I've wrapped my arms in there and shaked and pulled with both hands from both top and bottom.
I've spun it. It does spin, and actually spins the driver-side wheel. I can wiggle it on one axis of motion. I can wiggle it up and down, but not so much side to side. (Forgot to check if spinning changes this at all)
I've had the car running for about 30 minutes total. I was flushed the radiator fluid twice. Tonight, after much effort put into getting the CV Shaft when I started it up to check on CAI install I noticed that the driver wheels was spinning. This hadn't happened before, I checked to make sure it was in neutral, it was. I looked and to see if the passenger CV shaft was spinning, it was, but not nearly as much as the driver side. Shortly there after the wheel stopped spinning and I shut the engine off.
What led up to the situation:
I'm at the tail end of a beta 2 engine swap. I'm using the same CV shafts as before.
When I was pulling the old engine, I had lots of trouble with the spindle nut on the wheel hubs when I was trying to disconnect the CV shafts using demon_wolf's DIY. Someone here mentioned that I could just pry the CV shafts out as I hoisted the engine up... so I did that instead. I popped the CV shafts free from the transmission, and when I hoisted the engine high enough, I finished pulling the CV shafts out.
I used the same procedure in reverse when I was putting in the beta 2 engine. As I lowered the engine to a certain point, I'd grab and CV shaft and stick in the transmission, and then continue lowering.
I had some problems getting the engine lined up on its mounts, so there was hoisting, and some rehoisting and kicking the engine around some in order for the it to get lined up for the mounts. I've been using a chain hoist from a steel beam on the roof, so I didn't have much range of motion for getting the engine set properly. (Its all mounted properly now)
I used a pry bar to pop the driver's side CV shaft into place...
What now?
I've looked around online but can't find anything about a CV joint being stuck partially in a transmission. I'm befuddled, tired, frustrated, pissed, and generally feeling worn-down. Been doing this engine swap by myself at night for the past 7 days. I thought it'd take me 3-4. It was very ambitious project for me... being that I've never done much car work before and the only assistance is from information available here. This is the very last bit of this project and I just want to have it be done!
So... what the heck is going on? Should I be planning on replacing a shaft? A transmission? Both? How the hell can I get this thing out (or in) the tranny?
I'm at the end of my rope here... need some advice.
Here's the situation:
The passenger CV joint on the shaft is stuck partially in the transmission. Its not completely in the transmission (otherwise I'd be a happy camper), its 1.5 to 2 inches out. Absolutely stuck. I can't pry it off, I can't push it in.
The other end of the shaft is completely free. I've disconnected it from the wheel hub, and disconnected the hub from the strut, that side of the shaft is sitting on the ground.
I've tried prying it from as many different angles as I can... can't pry from directly above due to the all the engine stuff being in the way. I've wrapped my arms in there and shaked and pulled with both hands from both top and bottom.
I've spun it. It does spin, and actually spins the driver-side wheel. I can wiggle it on one axis of motion. I can wiggle it up and down, but not so much side to side. (Forgot to check if spinning changes this at all)
I've had the car running for about 30 minutes total. I was flushed the radiator fluid twice. Tonight, after much effort put into getting the CV Shaft when I started it up to check on CAI install I noticed that the driver wheels was spinning. This hadn't happened before, I checked to make sure it was in neutral, it was. I looked and to see if the passenger CV shaft was spinning, it was, but not nearly as much as the driver side. Shortly there after the wheel stopped spinning and I shut the engine off.
What led up to the situation:
I'm at the tail end of a beta 2 engine swap. I'm using the same CV shafts as before.
When I was pulling the old engine, I had lots of trouble with the spindle nut on the wheel hubs when I was trying to disconnect the CV shafts using demon_wolf's DIY. Someone here mentioned that I could just pry the CV shafts out as I hoisted the engine up... so I did that instead. I popped the CV shafts free from the transmission, and when I hoisted the engine high enough, I finished pulling the CV shafts out.
I used the same procedure in reverse when I was putting in the beta 2 engine. As I lowered the engine to a certain point, I'd grab and CV shaft and stick in the transmission, and then continue lowering.
I had some problems getting the engine lined up on its mounts, so there was hoisting, and some rehoisting and kicking the engine around some in order for the it to get lined up for the mounts. I've been using a chain hoist from a steel beam on the roof, so I didn't have much range of motion for getting the engine set properly. (Its all mounted properly now)
I used a pry bar to pop the driver's side CV shaft into place...
What now?
I've looked around online but can't find anything about a CV joint being stuck partially in a transmission. I'm befuddled, tired, frustrated, pissed, and generally feeling worn-down. Been doing this engine swap by myself at night for the past 7 days. I thought it'd take me 3-4. It was very ambitious project for me... being that I've never done much car work before and the only assistance is from information available here. This is the very last bit of this project and I just want to have it be done!
So... what the heck is going on? Should I be planning on replacing a shaft? A transmission? Both? How the hell can I get this thing out (or in) the tranny?
I'm at the end of my rope here... need some advice.
07-26-2008, 08:33 AM
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Hmm, I'm thinking you may have jammed it in place with the C clip. You reused the driveshaft right?
I'll see what I can think of.
I'll see what I can think of.
07-26-2008, 04:49 PM
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1. take some pics.
2. get that axle out. pry the hell out of it.
3. Redzman is correct, the C-clip is warped or flat, its not doing its job.
4. revert to number 2 and get that axle out !
5. fix the c-clip, it should be kinda oval, but warped.
6. look at the teeth before you try and bang it in there. they may be mashed and mushroom, you will not get the axle back in if they are even the slightest bit mashed. you may have mushroomed them a bit trying to get it in the first time. so when you get the axle out, use a small file and fix the teeth, then clean off the filings and the c-clip and put it back in.
7. good luck.
2. get that axle out. pry the hell out of it.
3. Redzman is correct, the C-clip is warped or flat, its not doing its job.
4. revert to number 2 and get that axle out !
5. fix the c-clip, it should be kinda oval, but warped.
6. look at the teeth before you try and bang it in there. they may be mashed and mushroom, you will not get the axle back in if they are even the slightest bit mashed. you may have mushroomed them a bit trying to get it in the first time. so when you get the axle out, use a small file and fix the teeth, then clean off the filings and the c-clip and put it back in.
7. good luck.
07-26-2008, 07:23 PM
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Thanks loneshark.
Its encouraging to think that its still possible to get this done.
So it comes down to just prying it out eh?
Far as damage to the components... it'd be $50 to get are manufactured shaft from O'Reilys, not sure if that'll come with a c-clip. If I ordered it on Monday, it'd come on Tuesday.
I'll get a friend and see if the two of us can't pry that damn thing off.
Update:
Pried and Pried and Pried to no avail... it was stuck.
We did get it off though. My goal was still to reuse the shaft and I was told pulling on the hub end would damage the joints.
So I gave up on the shaft and after some back n forth pulling on the shaft, it popped loose.
The c-ring was not just warped, it had bent and got itself lodged in the teeth of the shaft. So there is no way I'm going to re-use the ring.
The shaft itself seems to be in alright shape. Going to take a dremel to it and clean up the teeth.
Tomorrow I'll see about getting a c-ring to replace the bent one.
I assume thats it a part that they'll have on hand and won't need to order out for...
If all goes well and I can get a new c-ring, I'll be finished tomorrow.
Its encouraging to think that its still possible to get this done.
So it comes down to just prying it out eh?
Far as damage to the components... it'd be $50 to get are manufactured shaft from O'Reilys, not sure if that'll come with a c-clip. If I ordered it on Monday, it'd come on Tuesday.
I'll get a friend and see if the two of us can't pry that damn thing off.
Update:
Pried and Pried and Pried to no avail... it was stuck.
We did get it off though. My goal was still to reuse the shaft and I was told pulling on the hub end would damage the joints.
So I gave up on the shaft and after some back n forth pulling on the shaft, it popped loose.
The c-ring was not just warped, it had bent and got itself lodged in the teeth of the shaft. So there is no way I'm going to re-use the ring.
The shaft itself seems to be in alright shape. Going to take a dremel to it and clean up the teeth.
Tomorrow I'll see about getting a c-ring to replace the bent one.
I assume thats it a part that they'll have on hand and won't need to order out for...
If all goes well and I can get a new c-ring, I'll be finished tomorrow.
07-26-2008, 07:57 PM
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werd, when you put a shaft in you always have to take a good look at the c-clip, sometimes even re manufactured axles have warped c-clips put on.
good to hear you got it out, dont worry about the differential teeth being messed up, they are stronger than the axle's teeth.
good to hear you got it out, dont worry about the differential teeth being messed up, they are stronger than the axle's teeth.
07-28-2008, 04:10 AM
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Here's a not so great update:
Got a new c-ring, cleaned up the spindle, and attempted a reinstall. It got stuck in the same place. I had made the mistake of not test fitting it to make sure it'd fit without the c-ring. It just didn't come to mind...
In process of removing the CV shaft a second (well... third actually) time, the boot n c-ring at the hub end came apart. (and the replacement c-ring I got is all bent out of shape as well)
I'm ordering a remanfactured shaft from O'reilys. It'll be here on Tuesday.
I stuck my finger in the transmission and felt around, trying to figure what's going on. There are 2 slots for the c-ring to engage at. One, at the end, where installation of the CV shaft is complete, and one halfway... just before the spindles in the transmission. I've been getting caught up at the halfway mark. As far as I can feel, the spindles in the transmission are fine, but there is one little bur that is at the halfway c-ring slot towards the hub end. From the feels of it, it was created by the process of removing the stuck shaft the first time around.
I don't think that its the bur that is causing the problem for the C-ring... I think the guide spindle on the CV shaft were damaged when they were first removed, and I didn't inspect them when I reinstalled them. This made it so I was unable to complete the install... The 2nd time around, I didn't properly clean the spindle, thinking most of the problem was generated by the previous c-ring. The bur caused problems for the shaft to be removed, and the damaged spindle on the shaft prevented a complete installation.
So, now that I'm getting a remanufactured shaft, with a good spindle and pre-installed c-ring... what should I do?
A) I could remove the c-ring from it, then attempt a trail installation checking the teeth in the transmission. The drawback here, is that pulling the c-ring off and then reinstalling it would be causing it to warp slightly... Not sure if that type of thing is a make/break for the c-ring. If it does fit, then put the c-ring back on, and attempt installation.
B) I could assume everything is going to work, and then attempt a installation with the new shaft exactly as it came from the factory.
C) I could attempt to file/dremel the bur in the transmission. (It'd be very difficult, but I wouldn't say impossible... being that I'd be doing it with me laying on my back under the car, blind and going by feel)
C) then B)
C) then A)
A), if it doesn't fit, then C)
The limiting factor is that I have very very very little time left to work on the car now, but at the same time needing it to make a 4 hour drive to chicago wednesday night.
I'm leaning towards A), if it doesn't fit, then C) option. Course there is the C) then A) ... Though honestly, based on how it feels in there, I don't think that bur has anything to do with problems of installation... just makes removal a lot ... lot harder.
Got a new c-ring, cleaned up the spindle, and attempted a reinstall. It got stuck in the same place. I had made the mistake of not test fitting it to make sure it'd fit without the c-ring. It just didn't come to mind...
In process of removing the CV shaft a second (well... third actually) time, the boot n c-ring at the hub end came apart. (and the replacement c-ring I got is all bent out of shape as well)
I'm ordering a remanfactured shaft from O'reilys. It'll be here on Tuesday.
I stuck my finger in the transmission and felt around, trying to figure what's going on. There are 2 slots for the c-ring to engage at. One, at the end, where installation of the CV shaft is complete, and one halfway... just before the spindles in the transmission. I've been getting caught up at the halfway mark. As far as I can feel, the spindles in the transmission are fine, but there is one little bur that is at the halfway c-ring slot towards the hub end. From the feels of it, it was created by the process of removing the stuck shaft the first time around.
I don't think that its the bur that is causing the problem for the C-ring... I think the guide spindle on the CV shaft were damaged when they were first removed, and I didn't inspect them when I reinstalled them. This made it so I was unable to complete the install... The 2nd time around, I didn't properly clean the spindle, thinking most of the problem was generated by the previous c-ring. The bur caused problems for the shaft to be removed, and the damaged spindle on the shaft prevented a complete installation.
So, now that I'm getting a remanufactured shaft, with a good spindle and pre-installed c-ring... what should I do?
A) I could remove the c-ring from it, then attempt a trail installation checking the teeth in the transmission. The drawback here, is that pulling the c-ring off and then reinstalling it would be causing it to warp slightly... Not sure if that type of thing is a make/break for the c-ring. If it does fit, then put the c-ring back on, and attempt installation.
B) I could assume everything is going to work, and then attempt a installation with the new shaft exactly as it came from the factory.
C) I could attempt to file/dremel the bur in the transmission. (It'd be very difficult, but I wouldn't say impossible... being that I'd be doing it with me laying on my back under the car, blind and going by feel)
C) then B)
C) then A)
A), if it doesn't fit, then C)
The limiting factor is that I have very very very little time left to work on the car now, but at the same time needing it to make a 4 hour drive to chicago wednesday night.
I'm leaning towards A), if it doesn't fit, then C) option. Course there is the C) then A) ... Though honestly, based on how it feels in there, I don't think that bur has anything to do with problems of installation... just makes removal a lot ... lot harder.
07-28-2008, 04:42 PM
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A.
don't even THINK about C unless you have exhausted every other option..
and don't even ponder dremel tool. you could really mess things up. a file, maybe. but don't do any of that if A works.
this burr, how big is it? 1/16" long? size of a hair?
don't even THINK about C unless you have exhausted every other option..
and don't even ponder dremel tool. you could really mess things up. a file, maybe. but don't do any of that if A works.
this burr, how big is it? 1/16" long? size of a hair?
07-28-2008, 06:57 PM
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a. im confused
b. yup still confused
c. wtf did you say ??
lol
look, DO NOT USE A DREMEL unless you got dremel skillz. just buy a 99 cent metal file, i tiny one, like a jewelers file, and make every tooth on the axle perfect. then try and install without the clip. if that works and you can get it all the way in, then put the c-clip on and make sure its nice and closed up on the axle and put it back in.
b. yup still confused
c. wtf did you say ??
lol
look, DO NOT USE A DREMEL unless you got dremel skillz. just buy a 99 cent metal file, i tiny one, like a jewelers file, and make every tooth on the axle perfect. then try and install without the clip. if that works and you can get it all the way in, then put the c-clip on and make sure its nice and closed up on the axle and put it back in.
07-30-2008, 06:17 PM
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Got the remanufactured shaft. It looks a lil beefier and doesn't have the rubber stopper halfway down the shaft.
Went with A as advised... took whole 10 minutes to install.
Well that's a wrap for this thread!
UPDATE:
Hours before the planned drive to Chicago I notice that there is tranny fluid under the car...
So... its been leaking, from the passenger side. I didn't replace the seal (... next time I'd be sure to order the damn $4 thing, and from Hyundai only btw).
What are the chances that the reason that its leaking is because the remanufactured shaft is every so slightly different from the OEM one, and so it doesn't meet the seal properly? It wasn't leaking before... and now it is. Of course a lot has happened between then and now.
I did inspect the seal when the shaft was out and it looked fine...
Damnit...
E-brake cable breaking... Code for TPS... Now this crap.
One option is to cap off the oil, then drive 60 miles to the Hyundai dealership, and have the seal replaced. Then go on my merry drive to Chicago early in the morning instead of late at night like I was planning.
Went with A as advised... took whole 10 minutes to install.
Well that's a wrap for this thread!
UPDATE:
Hours before the planned drive to Chicago I notice that there is tranny fluid under the car...
So... its been leaking, from the passenger side. I didn't replace the seal (... next time I'd be sure to order the damn $4 thing, and from Hyundai only btw).
What are the chances that the reason that its leaking is because the remanufactured shaft is every so slightly different from the OEM one, and so it doesn't meet the seal properly? It wasn't leaking before... and now it is. Of course a lot has happened between then and now.
I did inspect the seal when the shaft was out and it looked fine...
Damnit...
E-brake cable breaking... Code for TPS... Now this crap.
One option is to cap off the oil, then drive 60 miles to the Hyundai dealership, and have the seal replaced. Then go on my merry drive to Chicago early in the morning instead of late at night like I was planning.