Recently I've been doing a lot of work on the tib. One of the projects was changing the timing belt. I saved a bundle on labor charges but DAYUM, doing it for the first time was a little more intensive than I thought.

Ran into many problems, some unavoidable (like already stripped bolts from previous owners, losing tools, not having air tools, working alone, etc.)

Well, this is the first car I've seen that you have to completly remove the crankshaft pulley (to get to the lower timing belt cover bolts) and the ENGINE MOUNT to change a timing belt. LOL, it'd be easier and quicker just to pull the engine out of the bay and work on the timing belt there..

Well, having no air tools I used the starter to remove the crankshaft pulley bolt (22mm), i.e. braced the bolt with a breaker bar and turn key for millisecond to break bolt loose.

Needless to say this spun the cam pulley without spinning the crank, which means my timing is off. no doubt..

I've been reading HMA/Webtech (which is now down) and all the write-ups on HA.org, but I am a little confusing on how to reset the timing to where it should be, PERFECTLY.

Webtech refers to mark on the timing chain (which are apparently invisble) and a mark on the head that needs to be lined up with a little hole on the cam pulley up top. Logically, I would think there would need to be a mark on the crank pulley as well (down below). If there wasn't you could potentially THINK you have cyl 1 at tope dead center of the compression stroke, but you could be 180 degrees off (without referring to a crank pulley marking..)

Well, I went down and looked and there is what seems to be a timing mark..
I don't have a Chiltons and need some help here. I don't want to start the car and bend a valve or do unessecary damage to my engine.

Here are some pictures of what I see and an explanation below them of what I THINK should be done to re-adjust the timing to factory.


^^^^
Here is the crank pulley mark (down below). I'm not sure what needs to be ALIGNED with this mark...
On the inner crank pulley (the one the timing belt goes on) there is a notch to make sure it goes on the crankshaft correctly. I am assuming this notch needs to be aligned with this mark (drawn in red in case you can't see it behind the pulley/belt)...


^^^^
Here is what I believe is the camshaft/pulley mark (up top).
There is a notch (diagonal) on the cyl head and a small hole on the cam pulley itself. I believe that hole needs to be aligned with that diaganol notch..

once BOTH of these marks are aligned the number one cylinder should be at TDC...
Correct?


^^^^
Webtech refers to marks on the timing chain (and counting 5 chain links from one point to another..)
I'd upload the picture/drawing off their website but it is currently down..
Here's a picture of my timing chain, maybe if there is something I need to look at (for timing) then someone can point it out...



Thanks for any help in advance,

My advice for fellow Do-It-Yourself-ers...
Have an air compressor and 22mm for the crank pulley bolt.

Before you start remove pulley bolts, or belts...
REMOVE THE VALVE COVER (even though you don't have too..) So you can place levels on the timing chain and cam pulley and mark their locations with a sharpie..
That way you don't have to worry about finding stupid marks if your mess up your timing during the removal of the crankshaft pulley..

DO NOT ROTATE THE CRANKSHAFT PULLEY IN A COUNTERCLOCKWISE DIRECTION.

Have your kid, or a friends kid come by the garage and give a helping hand (you'll need their small hands for bolts like the water pump pulley and motor mount bolts.. etc.)
^^Or just pull the engine up outta the bay, it's easy and will make your life a LOT easier during this change..

AGAIN, THANKS IN ADVANCE GUYS. I hope I get some responses by tomorrow.

-Patrick

 

Cam pulley should be Keyed.. so it should have turned with the crank. If it didn't, your valves already became intimate friends with the pistons.

Anyway... going by my shop manual (no chiltens for me) the book only gives marks on the cylinder head, not the block, which I find odd.. anyway:

With the engine at top dead centre (all valves to number 1 cylinder should be closed and the cam lobes 180 degrees away from the followers.) the hole in the spoke of the cam pulley needs to be facing up and there are two additional marks on the outer circumferance of the wheel that should line up with two marks on the head. With the single dot up, the two dots on the edge, will be at an angle, NOT 90 degrees from the one at the top.

I hope that makes some sense. If you think the hyundai engine is hard.. on my fiat, not only do I need to remove the pulley to access the belt (do to the backside of the belt cover) but you have to drain the coolant as the output from the head to the radiator goes THROUGH where the timing belt goes.

Before I forget.. once you get the belt on.. turn the engine over by hand.. the books says one revolution, but I prefer several to make sure that there is no binding. With the plugs out, it should turn over with just a socket and wrench on the crank nut... this is to make sure that valves are not meeting pistons.. if you do it by hand, all you can do is maybe scratch them... as opposed to bending and break valves, and holing the pistons and head, and gouging the cylinder walls.

 

Thanks, I'll be looking for those extra two marks on the cam pulley...

And draining the coolant is no biggie man, might as well do it on a tib because your exposing the water pump and should replace it anyways.

(which btw, the one that comes with the kspec kit WILL NOT work on the early 1.8litres, bunch a BS. AND the drive belt they sent me was too long. I am FED UP with kspec... No more business from me) mad.gif

 

that may be true on modern cars. As the fiat is the first production car to use a timing belt, it is only good for about 20 to 25 thousand miles before it needs to be changed. Also, the top of the engine sits higher than the top of the radiator cap, so "burping" the coolant is a serious PITA.

Sorry about your experiences with Kspec.. did you order a kit for the 1.8?

 

They talked with me back and forth day-to-day for a month because I wanted a timing belt kit but made sorta ""specifically" for me..

I told them I don't have AC and don't need the belt, I told them I have a 1.8L rev A and any differences between the 2.o litres should be noted and items changed in the kit (at the time I didn't know if the belt sizes were different or pulleys/water pump were different in any way..)

So they reassured me the belts would be the right size, and the AC belt excluded, and everything would be re-checked. Well out of the 6 or so things they sent I can only use the actual timing belt and new tensioner. The idler they sent doesn't turn very smoothly (feels like their is sand in the bearings or something, I tried brake cleaner...) But my old idler spins fine..

Which reminds me, I have one more question. Anyone who's changed the belt on their tib;

Is the idler supposed to be somewhat offset from the width of the belt. I noticed the crank pulley is further out from the black than the idler pulley so the belt either;
1.) only touches half the idler pulley and is fully engaged by the crank
OR
2.) is fully touching the idler but overhanging the crank towards the block..

I want to make sure I didn't miss re-installing something, it seems weird to have this problem. But then again so has everything else I've found on this engine..

And Mad, those two marks from the cam pulley hole, they are ON the cam pulley right? And should be lined up with MORE marks on the head?

I'm looking now..

 

Dude, you've not notified me of any problems, and I didn't see any posts about it on our forums, what gives?

Also, like everyone knows, the kits we sell are for Korean Domestic Market cars, there are numerous changes in pulleys and much more between several years on the beta engine.

Sorry you had issues man.

 

No problem, it's not just this that did me over w/ kspec..

They have a lot of good stuff, it's just getting it to me (the states) in a correct and safe manner, you know how i feel about their packaging. Blah...

back to the timing issues, I found a mark on the lower timing belt cover...

It states;

"B TDC" and then has a mark to the right of that..

then below it is has two marks, the one to the farthest left has "10" marked on it. I believe that is marking the degrees, I still don't know what I should be lining up with this mark... ???, on the crank pulley..

I dunno, I gotta finish this ish tonight, f*** it if I get bent valves I'll trach the POS and call it a day..

 

if you smack the head...i got a spare lmao.gif

 

So do I but it's in NY

w/ Viper

Seriously, no one has changed their own timing belt and can help me understand what f-ing marks are on the crank pulley...??? (to line up with the marks on the timing belt cover /lower half)..



FAWK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I swear, what the hell did I do to deserve this ish..

I can't believe how long this is taking..

Well, I found the mark on the crank pulley, it is NOT the notch that is attached to the crank shaft..
I had the pulley on backwards, doh.gif LOL

but that's not the problem, I had the timing all set, and I go to put the tensioner on and tighten the bolt and it tightens then loses tight-ness, and keeps doing it..

I take out the tensioner pulley and just thread the bolt into the hole in the head and it goes in fine all the way to the stop, then I try with the tensioner attached again and it won't freakin tighten when I torque the tensioner pulley down to create tension on the timing belt..

So I take a closer look at the bolt and there are metal shavings in the threads, COMING OUT OF THE HEAD!!

aHHq1!!! wtf! WHY!

I hate this f***ing shit..

mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif

 

honestly, I never look for marks when I change a timing belt. As long as the crank and the cam wheels do not move after you take the belt off, there is no reason to. And trust me, I have done a LOT of timing belts. 4 on my own fiats, 1 for a friend, 2 on my 88 excel, and 1 on the tib.