Camshaft Trouble - Firing Order, Catcams & 1.8 Intake...
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Joined: Oct 2008
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From: UK
Hi Guys,
Im hoping you call all help me out on this somewhat confusing situation here....
Ok, recently myself and a mate bought ourselves Catcams camshafts for our Beta I's. They are, infact identical to I8acobra's camshafts, and so we knew what we were letting ourselves in for wink1.gif
After much confusion regarding the sprockets, we went to the garage to get them fitted, only to be called an hour later, and told that the cams wont fit - due to the firing order being completely wrong.
Ok, so over here in the UK, we dont, and never have had the 1.8. We have the 1.6 & 2.0 - but in 1999/2000 the F2 Evolution was brought out as a special edition - with a lumpier intake cam - which is infact your 1.8 / lantra camshaft.
Anyhow, what is now really weird is that we have rung 3 independant UK hyundai dealers, and spoken to the mechanics, rung our UK modifier supplier whome imports the "evo" cams from Korea and also the man at catcams. They ALL said that the firing order was 1,3,4,2.
However, we have sent our cams back to catcams, along with the exact OEM cams out Aarons car - and they have confirmed that the firing order is different indeed - lobes 1 & 4 are exactly the same, but lobes 2 & 3 are 180deg out - so in effect swapped around!
These catcams however are a firing order, of, what was confirmed as 1,3,4,2 BUT our cams straight out our engine arent. (So would that make it 1,2,4,3)?
Now, below is a picture of a 1.8 camshaft that i had as a spare - please can someone confirm if thats the same firing order as you guys have got? As these go plonk straight in our engine, and are the correct firing order.
Now, so far all I could think is, ok maybe it has been badly documented over the past, and someone has just got it wrong... untill Matt at catcams said "nope, when we made that one batch of cams for america, 10 were made and shipped out to and they were all the same, 2 of which you have there. And there has been no comeback whatsoever....being exactly the same as what you have been sent by us....
So in essence - have people been putting cams in with lobes 2 & 3 180deg out, and not having problems?! I didnt think that possible...
Many thanks
Im hoping you call all help me out on this somewhat confusing situation here....
Ok, recently myself and a mate bought ourselves Catcams camshafts for our Beta I's. They are, infact identical to I8acobra's camshafts, and so we knew what we were letting ourselves in for wink1.gif
After much confusion regarding the sprockets, we went to the garage to get them fitted, only to be called an hour later, and told that the cams wont fit - due to the firing order being completely wrong.
Ok, so over here in the UK, we dont, and never have had the 1.8. We have the 1.6 & 2.0 - but in 1999/2000 the F2 Evolution was brought out as a special edition - with a lumpier intake cam - which is infact your 1.8 / lantra camshaft.
Anyhow, what is now really weird is that we have rung 3 independant UK hyundai dealers, and spoken to the mechanics, rung our UK modifier supplier whome imports the "evo" cams from Korea and also the man at catcams. They ALL said that the firing order was 1,3,4,2.
However, we have sent our cams back to catcams, along with the exact OEM cams out Aarons car - and they have confirmed that the firing order is different indeed - lobes 1 & 4 are exactly the same, but lobes 2 & 3 are 180deg out - so in effect swapped around!
These catcams however are a firing order, of, what was confirmed as 1,3,4,2 BUT our cams straight out our engine arent. (So would that make it 1,2,4,3)?
Now, below is a picture of a 1.8 camshaft that i had as a spare - please can someone confirm if thats the same firing order as you guys have got? As these go plonk straight in our engine, and are the correct firing order.
Now, so far all I could think is, ok maybe it has been badly documented over the past, and someone has just got it wrong... untill Matt at catcams said "nope, when we made that one batch of cams for america, 10 were made and shipped out to and they were all the same, 2 of which you have there. And there has been no comeback whatsoever....being exactly the same as what you have been sent by us....
So in essence - have people been putting cams in with lobes 2 & 3 180deg out, and not having problems?! I didnt think that possible...
Many thanks
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Your car is a 2.0L correct? That's the same motor I had in my car. If you have the same Cat Cams I had, they should bolt right in. My Cat Cams weren't any different than my stock Beta 1 2.0L cams. Only thing I can think of is that you somehow got a mis-labeled set of Cat Cams that are actually for a different car... maybe a Mitsubishi since their engines are similar?
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From: UK
Yeah, 2.0 Bet I....
Thats what i thought, but when we were then told that after checking the measurements were exactly right, and:
That the ones we received were part of the same batch as yours – ie the lobes were exactly the same as what would have been sent to you – thats where it gets confusing – as i now think they may have told a porkie.
If the 1.8 fits into both mine and yours – then we must have the same firing order, therefore, the only difference that is apparent is that the catcams are the odd ones out....
Having such bad luck with these atm ïÂÅ’ but, we’ll get there laugh.gif
You cant think of anything else it could be could you?
oh - anothwr thing - just to double check: please could you confirm to me that the pic of the cam above has the same firing order of yours - or what your firing order is?
Weird, because the ones supplied had the firing order of 1,3,4,2 which *should* be correct according to everyone - but somehow it just isnt!
Thats what i thought, but when we were then told that after checking the measurements were exactly right, and:
That the ones we received were part of the same batch as yours – ie the lobes were exactly the same as what would have been sent to you – thats where it gets confusing – as i now think they may have told a porkie.
If the 1.8 fits into both mine and yours – then we must have the same firing order, therefore, the only difference that is apparent is that the catcams are the odd ones out....
Having such bad luck with these atm ïÂÅ’ but, we’ll get there laugh.gif
You cant think of anything else it could be could you?
oh - anothwr thing - just to double check: please could you confirm to me that the pic of the cam above has the same firing order of yours - or what your firing order is?
Weird, because the ones supplied had the firing order of 1,3,4,2 which *should* be correct according to everyone - but somehow it just isnt!
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From: Pflugerville, TX
Vehicle: 2000 Elantra
I don't have much to add to the discussion, except this:
IF our engines use waste-spark type ignition (fires when there's no petrol)
and IF the injectors spray on power strokes AND intake strokes
then it might run with the middle cylinders timed 180 degrees wrong. Just something to think about.
IF our engines use waste-spark type ignition (fires when there's no petrol)
and IF the injectors spray on power strokes AND intake strokes
then it might run with the middle cylinders timed 180 degrees wrong. Just something to think about.
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Wouldn't that cause you to take on your intake stroke from the exhaust and the exhaust stroke out the intake? If you switched 180 wouldn't you be using the wrong valves on the different strokes?
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QUOTE (Androoo @ Oct 17 2008, 04:20 AM)
oh - anothwr thing - just to double check: please could you confirm to me that the pic of the cam above has the same firing order of yours - or what your firing order is?
Weird, because the ones supplied had the firing order of 1,3,4,2 which *should* be correct according to everyone - but somehow it just isnt!
Weird, because the ones supplied had the firing order of 1,3,4,2 which *should* be correct according to everyone - but somehow it just isnt!
The cam pictured looks like 1, 3, 4, 2 to me. As it's pictured (backwards from how it's in the motor), it spins away from me... so 1, 3, 4, 2 looks right.
Post a pic of the one out your engine that's supposedly 1, 2, 4, 3.
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From: UK
Ok, i think we have it.....
You will have to excuse my sloppy way of describing it but anyhow....
Yeah, i8acoba, youre right, the coupe does actually have a firing order of 1,3,4,2. But, the cams that were sent weren't
Catcams plain and simple made the cams wrong 02.gif
A possible cause may be that some left hand drive hyundais Sonata. etc - when they are left hand drive, the engine positioning switches - ie its made to a mirror image to fit a LHD car - or similly RHD whichever way you want to look.
Now, looking at the catcams - the would work, in a firing order of 1,3,4,2 IF you rotate the cams the other way around! Ie, i think that when they were made (perhaps these were the first 2 in the batch, and the lobes base form was contructed, they thought the coupe had indeed the same type of engine - switched. But, as it doesnt, a mistake was made and sadly they were put back on the shelf, and left for a couple of years. So when Aaron and I came along looking for 2 pairs of cams, they remembered "ah, yes we have 2" but infact were just essentially cock-ups.
So.... they have been sent back, and Belgium are now making another batch over the next few weeks, with a set of OEM cams so they DEFINATELY cant get it wrong this time.
On the plus side, at least this gives me more time to save for the SMT..... cool.gif
You will have to excuse my sloppy way of describing it but anyhow....
Yeah, i8acoba, youre right, the coupe does actually have a firing order of 1,3,4,2. But, the cams that were sent weren't
Catcams plain and simple made the cams wrong 02.gif
A possible cause may be that some left hand drive hyundais Sonata. etc - when they are left hand drive, the engine positioning switches - ie its made to a mirror image to fit a LHD car - or similly RHD whichever way you want to look.
Now, looking at the catcams - the would work, in a firing order of 1,3,4,2 IF you rotate the cams the other way around! Ie, i think that when they were made (perhaps these were the first 2 in the batch, and the lobes base form was contructed, they thought the coupe had indeed the same type of engine - switched. But, as it doesnt, a mistake was made and sadly they were put back on the shelf, and left for a couple of years. So when Aaron and I came along looking for 2 pairs of cams, they remembered "ah, yes we have 2" but infact were just essentially cock-ups.
So.... they have been sent back, and Belgium are now making another batch over the next few weeks, with a set of OEM cams so they DEFINATELY cant get it wrong this time.
On the plus side, at least this gives me more time to save for the SMT..... cool.gif
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From: UK
no, im sorry but i dont 02.gif I was so conccerned about whizzing them back asap that I didnt get a chance... however, to look at lined up against "normal" cams, they were exactly the same, but the positions of lobes 2 & 3 were switched to what they should have been.