redV6genesis

What I was wondering was if it is bad to downshift AND brake simutaneously. Since both are using the front wheels, is it bad if I use them at the same time? Or is it just more braking power?

Cujo

as long as you push the clutch in

187sks

In the Genesis downshifting doesn't do anything concerning the front wheels. But regardless, it is fine. Downshifts should ideally be rev matched to avoid upsetting the balance of the car, but even if that isn't done, no big deal.



During intense braking, the brakes should do all the braking, engine braking can't do a better job than the brakes alone.

'treezy

It's much cheaper to replace brakes than an engine. Use your brakes to slow down your car, not downshifts

300D50

I downshift more than I brake, but it comes at the price of sometimes accidentally slipping it into second at 80, and shiting your pants when the tach hits the peg...



That happened today, car took it rather well...



I guess my point is, done carefully, it's awesome, but you HAVE to be careful not to screw up like that...

187sks

Brake pads $ and 15 minutes to change

Clutch $$$$ and a PITA to change

Red Raspberry

I've done that a couple times.

Red Raspberry

On the Gen Coupe the brakes last longer than the clutch once you add some power.

wheel_of_steel

FTFY, rev matching master race reporting in. If you double declutch, you aren't wearing out the clutch or engine at all!

Whatnot

It could be bad depending on your technique and what "downshifting" means to you. But mostly no, it is called heel-toe'ing, pro's do it all the time. It really isn't to speed up your braking (though it might help slightly from engine braking) it is to as others said, not upset the balance and to put you in the peak power range for when you get back on it. You are constantly on the brakes, and as you are on the brakes, with your left foot you clutch in go to N, clutch out, then with the heel, you blip the throttle to rev match, clutch in, put it in gear, and keep on the brake, and as soon as you are slow enough, you can give it a bit of power in the turn, then hit your apex and floor it. That is a double clutch heel-toe as seen by the end of this video. The first time it apears that he is just heel-toe'ing single clutch (not letting clutch out for neutral)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuoZe...eature=related



Though any downshifting without rev matching isn't advisable, you never want to slow your car down with your clutch/tranny ,however slowing down with the engine is fine. IMO that is proper downshifting and what it was meant to mean, using the engine, not the tranny. You can use the load of the car to slow it down more than a coasting car would. So any time you are in gear and braking your car will slow down faster than in N. That is why heel-toe'ing is slitghly better braking, but again, that isn't the major intent, more of a benefit.



When people use engine braking or downshifting downhill, you still are not suppsed to use the tranny to slow you down, ie. be cruising at 60mph accelerating downhil and push the clutch in, and go to 3rd and slowly let the clutch out. That will slow you down quite a bit, but as others said, trannies are expensive compared to brakes. What will work more than fine is to use your engine as a brake, not the tranny. Rev match to get it in the lower gear, and now that you are in 3rd at 6krpm, now use your wheel brakes, they will be much more effective than being in N and attmepting to break. As you are no longer on the throttle at this point, your throttle is 'closed' (never all the way, that would probably break stuff or lock up your wheels, but your car is smart enough to not close the whole way) it limits the air coming in so now the fuel is cut off, and your spark, and your engine is using tq to pull the piston down to suck in some air, you will notice you boost/vacuum gauge is heavily into vaccum, this tq required to pull your piston down translates to braking force. A semi truck works on a similar priciple, they restrict the ease of flow or air to slow it down, some use exhaust and intake brakes, as in make it difficult to enter, and make it difficult to escape, though diesels not haivng a butterfly throttle, use cams to do this. But anyway, bakc on topic lol.



Engine braking is fine, tranny braking is not, using the foot brake in combo with engine braking will be more effective (but obiouvsly takes more skill) but is mainly done in combo to get you in peak power. Unless you practive the combo and it becomes second nature, don't mess with it, chances are if you are not familiar with it and attempt to use it in an emergency when a foot will do fine, you will probably spin out. But even pro's who it is second nature for, plan on using it well ahead when they see a turn, I am not sure if they could even pull it off safely in an emergency. If you need to stop, use your brakes, if you are racing and need to slow and get power for the turn, heel-toe. If you are going down a steep mountain and don't want to fade your brakes, engine brake combined with cadence foot braking is a good technique.