cg303

Looking at a couple of FMIC's. Both of them are identical in size (end tanks, width, height, etc) but one is about $100 more than the other. What makes one so much more expensive? Can a difference in the way the core is made or core density, effect pricing? What about the flow potential of the end tanks?

03tibe85

There a ton of reasons that can affect the price of FMIC not all of them necessarily make one better than the other. Here's just a few



1) Core type - whether its a tube and fin or bar and plate. Bar and plate is typically more money but also can be more effecient.



2) material used - not all aluminum is created equal. Some FMIC's use the cheapest and thinnest AL to save cost. These typically are rated very low flow wise and can't stand a lot of pressure.



3) fin spacing - some cheaper FMIC have a large fin spacing with a low fin count. These typically are very inefficient



4) brand name - this is obvious. Big names usually have big prices, but most times you get what you pay for in warranties and support.

MechaniX_034

Let's put two coolers into two categories. Category 1 is the cheap Chinese clone of an existing product. Category 2 is a reputable manufacturer who has sunk the money into R&D, materials and stringent manufacturing QC.



In category 1, the Chinese will copy to a tee whatever they see, and cut corners wherever they see fit in order to get the margin that they want. OR, the person who does the drawings up will do that. Very often, these people are enthusiasts BUT, they have no bloody idea what goes into a good cooler. They copy what they see, but are totally unaware of what they are not seeing. PLENTY of enthusiast-run companies do this, and it's pretty damned obvious to the trained eye(unfortunately I happen to be blind in that particular eye and the other one's reserved for women and beer.) The effect speaks for itself: rock-bottom price, and you pay it for performance that is very often worse than stock in terms of engine response. YES, you will make more power because the thing is just so damned big, but the question is this: how much will you have under the graph? This is the part that really matters, unless you happen to be interested in noting but dyno numbers.



And then you have category 2. People who actually know hat they are doing, and who are good enough to supply OEM. Of course you can expect to pay 1-300 dollars more for their product, and many kids won't know how to appreciate that. The garages that these kids feed will not necessarily know what they are looking at either because quite simply, they might not be any better than their customers except in terms of dismantling things. As a result, these pricier products are often seen as "overpriced" and "no better than Tuner Brand X" which gets splattered all over the internet.



Now, this claim can be made for one simple reason: maybe only 5% - 10% of all the people out there with tuned cars have engines highly strung enough to see a visible difference between a cat.1 and cat.2 cooler. And the people who do have these engines, would very much like for you to believe that the "tuner" cooler is all that. So that they can keep their competitive advantage. I can tell you right now that a stock GTR cooler will outperform a name-brand "tuner" intercooler that is sold aftermarket. I won't name names here, but many, many popular brands would be put to shame by that unit.



So. To sum it all up, you get what you pay for. Don't expect a cheap Ebay cooler or a popular "tuning" brand to outperform the real thing. And the "real" things, normally come from companies that use these cores:



-Garrett

-Calsonic

-PWR



These are the best-made and best tested cores on the planet and represent the best bang for buck. There are definitely more out there that don't represent such bang for buck, and that perform better, but those are not as easy to get you hands on. And they are not as easily or cheaply dealt with, either.



And we haven't even gotten into end tank design yet.

03tibe85

Well said mech-a-man!!

FlyRyde

Man I miss responses like that took me back to years ago when the forums were my largest source of education and inspiration. I just became smarter while trolling on my phone and having a cup of coffee at Dennys, lol, nice!

MechaniX_034

Yer well, I've learned a lot since those days. Stuff like this can do yer head in when you need to chase feedback from the dyno operator. Troubleshooting faults was one thing, that was easy. Troubleshooting "turbocharger is out of efficiency a bit too soon for my liking, might be a mechanical issue that needs to be sorted. Charge temperatures X degrees too high at Y revs, bringing the powerband forward Z revs while holding on to a bit of top end would be nice, too," I wouldn't wish that on anyone who isn't being paid to do it(in which case we just offer them a "good luck.")