I think some of you guys have a false notion on water injection. So hopefully I can answer, clarify, and teach you all a thing or two on this ish. For those who are familiar with WI, please add on any more info.

Since WI has plenty to do with F/I, this was the best forum to put it in. So WTF is WI? Won't the engine hydrolock if you put water in the engine? Why the hell do you even use it in the first place? Is that why you mix it with methanol? When do I use it?

Ok. The answer to the first n00b question is to best understand the purpose of an intercooler. You think you know that? Most people say it's the big rectangular thing (often mistakened as the radiator) in the front of a car and it looks "hawt and pimpin', and you're making MAD POWER!"

Ummm...it's a little more than that.

'course, most of you guys know it to be similar to a heatsink on a CPU or inside your high output "thump-thump boosting" amps. And because you driving, you move air through the intercooler, which cools the charge temp.

So WTF is WI? Well, it's using water as a form of cooling. We all know how water can hold up heat pretty well. I mean, after you turn off the heat to a boiling pot of water, it stays hot for a quite a while until room temp.

Won't the engine hydrolock if you put water in the engine? That depends on how stupid you are. laugh.gif

Ok the real answer to that is no. You won't hydrolock an engine if you go with a water injection setup, ONLY if use a powerful water pump and high flow nozzle to inject the water into wherever you wish to locate it (preferably between the IC and the TB). Why? Because the point of WI is so you atomize the water molecules...meaning that the spray is so fine that the water molecules are far apart from each other. What does this mean? It means when the water heatsoaks your heat coming in from the IC, and you lower temperatures.

So, can you hydrolock your engine? Yes, if you use a high flow nozzle. The powerful water pump would be nice (like an aircraft water pump), but if you wanna be cheap, you can get something decent (i.e. electric pumps only! Not mechanically driven ones).

Why the hell do you do it in first place? B/c it's like playing God. You control whether or not your engine should detonate or not. And we all know how we'd like to be God. tongue.gif

But beyond controlling the life expectancy of the engine, it's more for maintaining a specific temperature. I'm sure guys with sound systems are familiar with power spikes when they've got their subs thumping. Similar thing happens with the intercooling system for F/I. Your car tends to temperature spikes when you're not moving. Intake temperature rises b/c you're not cooling off the air much. Yeah, you could strap on a radiator fan behind the IC, but that's just blowing hot air @ idle directly towards the engine.

So WI is F/I's best friend.

Also, one of the primary uses is for timing. Usually, it puts timing back, or as close to, stock (ONLY if you're still using stock cams).

Is that why you use it with methanol? Ok, this is where a couple of guys will probably disagree with me. IMO, methanol is a bad choice to use in WI systems because methanol is prone to pre-igniting. I'd prefer denatured alcohol, readily available at Home Cheapot @ $10/gallon.

Water injection is MOST efficient when you mix it to 1:1 water:alcohol.

When do I use it? Ok...this might seem like a redundant question to "Why the hell do I use it in first place," but it's not my intent. The question should've been more like "When do I trigger the water injection system?" The answer is not all the time...otherwise you'll go through water pretty fast. You don't want to spray water when you're ON boost. It'll be useless.

There are different ways of triggering a WI on. Some people have found ways so that at a certain RPM only 10% of the spray is triggered, and then at a much higher RPM it sprays at 100%. If you have turbo timers, then I'm sure you can trigger the WI system on before you hit full boost.

I'm including several links to DIY sites for WI; do them at your own risk. If all you have is a NA setup, you're not going to see much in gains.

Note: Most of these sites are geared towards Buick Regal guys. Regal tuners have been playing with WI for a long time, so WI is definitely not something new.

http://www.buickgn.com/alcoholinjectionsystem.htm
http://members.cox.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html
http://users.frii.com/maphill/wi.html
http://cybrina.mine.nu/water/
http://www.turbomirage.com/water3.html

Do NOT expect to get a lot of HP gains for doing this. This is one of those small tricks that you have to do to ensure your engine's longevity!

 

also to note.. water injection is a half assed way of lowering your temps.

 

So you spray the water and light it up with multi-colored LED's? That's not useless.



Uh, could you explain how spraying a corrosive/oxidizing element into my engine helps it's longevity?


Water injection (or water alochol mix) are NOT reccomended. Why? Really simple.

What does your engine need to make the max power it can? Oxygen. Water injection does increase air density, but not enough to make up for the lack/displaced oxygen. In cases of severe detnation, water injection will cool the intake charge, allowing you to run more ignition timing, and appearing to make more power. However, the water is displacing oxygen, and will actually make LESS power had you built/spec the supercharger/turbocharger system properly to begin with.

Sure, it will work as a bandaid. If you're using a T2small turbo and trying to make 45psi of boost at 9000 rpm... the turbocharger is so far out of it's efficency range that the charge air is hot enough to melt the silocone connectors on your piping....water injection will save the day there. However, building the kit using the RIGHT turbo, a properly sized intercooler, and a proper engine managment system, water injection has only one place. keeping your windshield clean.

Do lotsa guys use water injection? You bet. Moron's keep buying "Tornado air", "Spiral MAX" and APC products. They swear they work too. rolleyes.gif


And before anyone thing's I'm just talking out my seating oriface. I was stupid, I believed the hype. I TRIED water injection. I learned the hard way.

 

Inappropriate comments deleted.

Contribute something useful to the thread if you are going to post Jaws.

 

AC, I'm all for you posting here man, but how about posting in a manner that shows you are trying to help folks learn, instead of the manner of...



rolleyes.gif

 

Edited for OT.

Next time points.

 

BTW... I should preface my earlier post. I would advocate water spray on the OUTSIDE of a heat exchanger (Radiator or intercooler). I just wouldn't advocate it' use INSIDE your engine.

 

That was an asinine comment.

If you deliver water on boost, your attempt at cooling the charge air is completely pointless. If you want to maintain a consistent temperature, then cooling before you engage on boost would provide better results.



Wow...did we forget about high school chemistry? WTF do you think combustion of gasoline yields? Water and carbon dioxide. It also yields other harmful chemicals as well, but that's beyond the point. And by longevity, I meant for cars that would not survive long enough with their current F/I setup.

Yes, you can corrode the combustion chamber, but that again depends on how much water you're pumping into the system. If you're adding too much water, you have the potential of hydrolocking. If you're setting the system up to decrease charge air temp effectively, but minimizing consumption of the water, then you're not going to kill of 20 years on the engine b/c you've added spritz of water.

These WI systems have been not only used to cool air temp, but many guys who have knock issues use them to end the problem.

Am I saying WI is the definitive solution to F/I? No, not really. Nowhere in my previous post did I say WI increases performance (other than cooling the charge air) or it was the only way to go for cooling an F/I application. Nope. But it has been proven that it eliminates knocking, which some engines do suffer for F/I (such as the 4G63T).



You're reading too much into the text. wink1.gif

 

This topic is now locked.

AC, Randoms "Asinine Comment" was due to a lack of expalanation on your part.






Maybe at that point he was, but you proved his point here :


Some of the members here may still be in high school. Don't ASSume.

Your intentions are in the right place, AC.

But you often post things that are too vague, then when someone asks you a simple, and almost always, a LOGICAL question about your post, you have an attitude about it. Its happened quite a few times, so don't try to deny it. If you are going to post topics like this, and expect people to appreciate them, then you need to drop the attitude, and be more thorough.


You won't get on the green without following through on your swing.

 

Topic unlocked.

Keep it mature and civil, and it will remain open.

More BS, it gets locked again.