turbulence

i'm going to start piecing together a turbo that i plan to install in about 6 months. i'm not sure if i should buy the cnk kit, or go custom. if i go custom, i have a few questions. when you answer my questions, keep in mind that this is a daily driver, and reliability is crucial. i don't want to have to upgrade my pistons or rods at this point. i'm looking to run a turbo on stock compression.

how much boost can i run on stock internals? this is my target boost.

is there a turbo that will bolt up to my stock close-coupled cat manifold? is there a downpipe that bolts up to that turbo? if there is no turbo that bolts up, what manifold, turbo, and downpipe would i use for my target boost, and still have room for more boost?

how much boost will i be able to run on stock injectors with a rising rate fpr, if any at all?

is my stock fuel pump sufficient for boost, if any, and how much?

i have an s-afc. if i can't use my stock injectors, what size injectors will i need for my target boost, providing that my stock internals will hold and my stock injectors aren't large enough.

at what boost level will i need an intercooler? immediately? intercooler piping?

what about ignition management? can i set my base timing? is an msd unit sufficient for retarding timing under boost? how about knock control? will a j&s work?

is my stock clutch strong enough for my target boost?

where will i get an oil feed line and can i just just tap into the oil pan for the return line? if the turbo that we will use is water cooled, where will i get the feed and return lines?

last question, for my target boost level, will i need a full stand alone ecu, or could i eliminate some things with a piggy back?

if there is anything i've left out, please include it in your post. i'll appreciate any info.

lantraluvr

Most of your questions could be found by searching, but I'll answer some of 'em anyway.

From what I hear, 13 psi is the max boost possible on the internals. In order for a turbo to fit in your stock manifold, you have to modify it in order for it to bolt on. You can always get a turbo manifold from other sources and make a cudtom downpipe. I dont think the stock fuel pump is sufficient for the turbo. I hear that you might need a i/c around 8 psi above. You can use piggybacks (S-AFC, MSD DIS-2) to tune your engine, bu standalone is best.

kevo

ok, turb. did some searching. i was surprised as to what i've found considering the size of this forum ( and yes, size matters! ) actually, now that i think about it, all of the answers came from a number of people that i can use one hand to count. just laugh, its a joke.

how much boost can i run on stock internals? this is my target boost.

8 psi will be the most we will wanna run on your stock internals. soooo.... target boost is now 8 psi.

is there a turbo that will bolt up to my stock close-coupled cat manifold? is there a downpipe that bolts up to that turbo? if there is no turbo that bolts up, what manifold, turbo, and downpipe would i use for my target boost, and still have room for more boost?

doesnt look like it w/o mods. currently checking out the KORE mani. apperantly it bolts up to a t3. just need to find out some things about the t3. hmmm. like where to get a downpipe. only thing is, its an external wastegate using turbo. top choice of power hungry dudes everywhere is to go with an external wastegate. this will drive the price up a 'lil bit. sad.gif

how much boost will i be able to run on stock injectors with a rising rate fpr, if any at all?

doesnt look good here kid. wouldnt be able to get much out of it from what i've seen here. maybe 30 whp tops. thats not gonna happen.

is my stock fuel pump sufficient for boost, if any, and how much?

not really. it looks like we'll have to go with a high pressure fuel pump. YAYEE !!! more money!!!

i have an s-afc. if i can't use my stock injectors, what size injectors will i need for my target boost ( now 8psi ) , providing that my stock internals will hold and my stock injectors aren't large enough.

looks like we'll be going with something like 440's from rcengineering. some other guy posted around 230 whp on stock internals and stock ecu with those bad boys. i highly doubt we will hit that mark at 8psi, actually, i'm sure we wont. not unless we spend countless hours and monies at the not-so-local dyno. and probably then it'd still be next to impossible for us to do. but they'll still leave room for improvement. RC Engineering high impedance saturated-type injectors.

at what boost level will i need an intercooler? immediately? intercooler piping?

we'll just play it safe and say yes.

what about ignition management? can i set my base timing? is an msd unit sufficient for retarding timing under boost? how about knock control? will a j&s work?

looks like we will be going with an msd unit. this isnt definite, as i'm gonna post on my board to see if we can get the bipes to work on your car. we have some other options to look at as well. dont know how we'll address knock. if i remember right, the bipes pulls timing based on boost and knock, or something like that. like i said, we'll figure it out.

is my stock clutch strong enough for my target boost?

your clutch is the least of my worries at this point. this kid. we just got done with the tranny swap and he's anxious to rip it back off again. he kills me.

where will i get an oil feed line and can i just just tap into the oil pan for the return line? if the turbo that we will use is water cooled, where will i get the feed and return lines?

still looking. however i see no reason as of now not to just go in through the oil pan for the return, and i read something about the feed line and the fitting into the block. so, ap(p)arently there is one. just have to do some more digging. the water lines are a different matter. i dont even know if a t3 is water-cooled or not. and dont get me wrong. we aint locked into getting a t3 or whatever turbo we end up getting 'till it's sitting in my lap.

last question, for my target boost level, will i need a full stand alone ecu, or could i eliminate some things with a piggy back?

negative. we should be good with what we are looking at.

not bad for my first post, eh?

turbulence

kevo's my best friend. he's my "head mechanic." he'll be helping me (or should i say guiding me) through the install. however, i'm proud to say that i installed the s-afc and a/f meter ALL BY MYSELF!!! he's lucky. greddy makes a kit for his car, and from what i've read on this forum, the cnk/ballistic kit from africa isn't happy with our maf tibs. i love this guy. i'm hoping this post will be a resource that every future custom turbo inquiry is referred to.

Bat Lord

that was when he was gonna offer a tuning option with it... but as of now you can use an S-AFC for some tuning...

Here's his post on the final introductory pricing:

trust me as of now, no other companies will match him

[ December 28, 2002, 05:02 AM: Message edited by: Bat Lord ]

turbulence

sounds good. i emailed him and asked what the pricing would be w/o the pistons and turbo. in conversation with shadohh, i found out that i can run 10 psi on stock internals (like i initially said, i don't feel like taking the engine out and replacing the pistons at this point) and that the t3/t4 is more suited for drag use and that the t3 would be more than sufficient, and will provide around 16-17 psi of boost.

CNK Performance

Turbulence -

I know I have spoken to you over Email - I want to reitirate once more - trust me take heed!

Why take a shortcut - if you want to turbocharge an engine - do properly, and follow the proven design rules and pratcises, they are there for a reason - if there was a shortcut - I PROMISE you I would have been first in line - and STILL in line because everyone else would be there also!

If you are wanting to run with stock internals - no problem do it, BUT lower your compression! Find someone local to you that is able to make you a head spacer (not the best route to follow either) or build your head up. Whichever route you choose, I told you in the Email to you, I would do the head for you and lap the valves, polish them etc all you need to do is pull the head off ans ship it to me - I will take care of the rest - it wouldn't affect the price of the kit in any way either.

If you choose to go with your custom option - thats fine, just LOWER THE COMPRESSION!

kevo

hey, cnk:

thanks man. i appreciate it. believe you me, the last thing i'm trying to do is cut corners. we just definitely dont want to pull his engine all the way down. but pulling the head i can manage doing w/o too much downtime. i mean, come on, it's my friends car. as for the head spacing, i totally forgot about it.

anyways, do you or anyone else know how thick we're going to wanna go to get it down to around 9.0:1?

if we run into anymore questions we'll be sure to ask!

thanks in advance,
kevo

[ December 28, 2002, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: kevo ]

Random

6psi 7-8 would be pushing it. If you had a good, efficent turbo, and a good, efficent intercooler, 8 might be doable, but I would target 6 and go up if everything stays groovy.

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No way. You will have to weld a flange onto your stock manifold, or weld/bolt an adapter onto a turbo.

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Even if you found a downpipe to match a particular turbo, you have to keep in mind, every engines space considerations are different. In our engine compartment, the alternator is rather close to where you would put out a down pipe, so you would need a beta specific downpipe to match your custom/stock manifold/turbo location. In short. No again.

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See above. In reality, you should plan your turbo setup from start to finish, and then pick the best turbo for your intended goals. A turbo that works great for your low boost 6 psi setup, will perform horribly at 15psi. A turbo for a 15psi setup will be inefficent at low boost (6psi). If you want to "compramise"...the turbo is NOT the place to do it.

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It depends on the RRFPR. a 2:1, should be good to about 50 PSI. a 10:1 to about 5 psi. The limiting factor is that around 80-100 psi, the stock injectors stick...so you want to keep your Fuel pressure below that mark. at 80psi, the stock injectors top out at about 165-170 hp at stock fuel pressure. at 80psi they can deliver about 200-225 hp.

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Fuel pump flow is inversely proportinal to pressure. If you raise the pressure via a RRFPR, then the flow goes down. NO, the stock pump can't handle it. Do a search on any of the many replacement pumps available for around $100.

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350's would be ideal, but 440's would also work, as they are nearly double the stock output.

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ALWAYS. There's NO REASON to try to get away without an intercooler. For a low boost application, go with 2" diameter tubing. you can replace it later if you upgrade your internals and go for high boost.

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MSD DIS-2 Programmable will allow you 100% control over your ignition timing, and boost dependant spark retard.

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Only with the above unit.

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The above mentioned MSD unit, or a DIS-2 with a MSD BTM will work, but you will loose 100% with a BTM.

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It will, but the stock system works rather well.

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For under 200 WHP, if driven properly, yes.

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Oil feel comes from a tap on the head. The feed can go back into the pan.

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You can tap into the upper and lower radiator hoses, or your can tap/reroute into the coolant lines that run to the throttle body.

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An S-AFC and a MSD DIS-2 Programmable will give you about 60% of the funtionality of a stand alone system. It should be fine for a low boost setup, but if you go to a high boost setup, go with a stand alone.