Super AND Turbo?
03-13-2002, 09:48 AM
#2
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yes it is possible to turbo and supercharge and nitrous a tiburon..
BUT WHY BOTHER ?
you can get more power than all of that by just maxing out any one of those individual power adders..
lets say your turbo adds 80 HP, and your supercharger adds another 50, then you add a 50 shot of nitrous.. you are adding a total of 180 hp... instead of spending all that money on mods, you could just use a nitrous kit and spray 180 hp or a dual stage and spray 100 shot then another 100 shot ... and make 200 more hp for REALLY CHEEP !!!!!!
see what i mean?
BUT WHY BOTHER ?
you can get more power than all of that by just maxing out any one of those individual power adders..
lets say your turbo adds 80 HP, and your supercharger adds another 50, then you add a 50 shot of nitrous.. you are adding a total of 180 hp... instead of spending all that money on mods, you could just use a nitrous kit and spray 180 hp or a dual stage and spray 100 shot then another 100 shot ... and make 200 more hp for REALLY CHEEP !!!!!!
see what i mean?
03-13-2002, 10:37 AM
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Maybe to enhance the overall driving experience? Maybe for the technical challenge? Maybe just curiousity?
If your life revolves around a 15-second thrill, so be it. All you need is a bottle of nitrous and a two-dollar-whore.
Some people want more. He didn't ask about nitrous. There are lots of posts about nitrous on the board at the moment. Why do you feel the need to push it on everyone? Why can't you simply answer the question he asked?
If your life revolves around a 15-second thrill, so be it. All you need is a bottle of nitrous and a two-dollar-whore.
Some people want more. He didn't ask about nitrous. There are lots of posts about nitrous on the board at the moment. Why do you feel the need to push it on everyone? Why can't you simply answer the question he asked?
03-13-2002, 10:50 AM
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Actually, there are a very few vehichles in the world that do run dual-charged setups (super and turbo)
The problem is finding a supercharger that is OK with a blowthrough design. Strapping on an Alpine roots-style supercharger, and THEN strapping on a UFB-style turbocharger would actually cause more problems than solutions.
You have one of several issues:
Thermal efficiency. Double-compressing air is going to get HOT. You can intercool it to an extent, but it's still going to be an issue. Hot air = more prone to detonation, which means you need to throw more fuel and retard timing to keep it under control... Which means you lose power.
Blower turbine overspeed. If you're pushing 10psi from a turbo THROUGH a supercharger, then your charger will have to be spinning pretty damned fast to make sure it doesn't cause a restriction. Or in reverse -- if your charger is trying to push 10psi while your turbo is lagging, it's going to cause a funky 3-stage pressure differential and it's going to wear on the blower.
Also is the wierd volumetric tuning problems you encounter with such a setup. You'd just damn near HAVE to go standalone to get the mapping right, because the wierd shyt it could potentially do with pressure gradients and spikes and lulls and whatnot.
Too much of a PAIN in the azz to worry about. I was looking at such possibilities way earlier on, but a properly tuned and designed turbocharger setup will be MORE than adequate.
And while I might have a tad more lag at the 2000-3500 area than someone with a supercharger, I doubt that 0.2 seconds of time difference will matter when I rocket past at 24 pounds of turbocharged and intercooled positive pressure
The problem is finding a supercharger that is OK with a blowthrough design. Strapping on an Alpine roots-style supercharger, and THEN strapping on a UFB-style turbocharger would actually cause more problems than solutions.
You have one of several issues:
Thermal efficiency. Double-compressing air is going to get HOT. You can intercool it to an extent, but it's still going to be an issue. Hot air = more prone to detonation, which means you need to throw more fuel and retard timing to keep it under control... Which means you lose power.
Blower turbine overspeed. If you're pushing 10psi from a turbo THROUGH a supercharger, then your charger will have to be spinning pretty damned fast to make sure it doesn't cause a restriction. Or in reverse -- if your charger is trying to push 10psi while your turbo is lagging, it's going to cause a funky 3-stage pressure differential and it's going to wear on the blower.
Also is the wierd volumetric tuning problems you encounter with such a setup. You'd just damn near HAVE to go standalone to get the mapping right, because the wierd shyt it could potentially do with pressure gradients and spikes and lulls and whatnot.
Too much of a PAIN in the azz to worry about. I was looking at such possibilities way earlier on, but a properly tuned and designed turbocharger setup will be MORE than adequate.
And while I might have a tad more lag at the 2000-3500 area than someone with a supercharger, I doubt that 0.2 seconds of time difference will matter when I rocket past at 24 pounds of turbocharged and intercooled positive pressure
03-13-2002, 11:37 AM
#5
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Vehicle: 2008 Toyota Prius 2006 Suzuki SV650S
As Red stated, it is POSSIBLE, just damn hard. In the Ultimate Street Car Shootout, there was a first gen MR2 with a Supercharged, turbocharged, 1.6L that cranked out 318 WHEEL HP, and they said the tuning was ****ty.
Yes, it has power potential...but as this guy proved...it's damn hard to get working right. Unless you have a dyno that you can use for dirt cheap...and have someone who can tune forced induction engines in their sleep who works for dirt cheap...I would NOT reccomend it.
quote from SCC
Yes, it has power potential...but as this guy proved...it's damn hard to get working right. Unless you have a dyno that you can use for dirt cheap...and have someone who can tune forced induction engines in their sleep who works for dirt cheap...I would NOT reccomend it.
quote from SCC
QUOTE
Mike Carwin's turbocharged and supercharged MR2 had only been assembled the week before the test, and had very little development time. Considering the hasty construction and 1.6-liter displacement, 318 hp was mighty impressive. The power delivery score, however, showed its weakness. The switch from supercharger to turbocharger at 3500 rpm was poorly managed, and power output nose-dived until almost 5000 rpm. The MR2's power delivery score was calculated from 3300 to 7400 rpm, so the troubled area did a lot of damage. In peak power, the MR2 was seventh overall; in power delivery, it dropped to ninth.
For the full article, and info on the twin engine twin turbo charged tibby. Click Here!
03-13-2002, 09:53 PM
#7
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QUOTE
totoro001:
alright, that answers my question.. i'm goin with that kore turbo kit.. mmmm.. 4000 bux well spent if i may say so myself smile.gif
4000 BUX FOR A TURBO KIT!?!? alright, that answers my question.. i'm goin with that kore turbo kit.. mmmm.. 4000 bux well spent if i may say so myself smile.gif
03-13-2002, 10:04 PM
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in response to V... quote "He didn't ask about nitrous. There are lots of posts about nitrous on the board at the moment. Why do you feel the need to push it on everyone? Why can't you simply answer the question he asked? "
answer: because i feel like it.
answer: because i feel like it.
03-13-2002, 10:50 PM
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QUOTE
TowsonShark:
yeah 4000 bucks is alot of money but i think it comes with some more stuff then just the turbo ???
That kit comes with EVERYTHING! The only thing it seems to me that is missing is a Dyno-tune for the car after you get it installed (or install it yourself)! I was considering this kit also, just don't have $4000 to drop.......yet. wink yeah 4000 bucks is alot of money but i think it comes with some more stuff then just the turbo ???
The list from their site:
Turbonetics Turbocharger T3/T4 Hybrid (with internal wastegate)
Intercooler (core size: 750mm x 240mm x 50mm)
Link engine management system (pre-programmed for 10psi on near-stock Beta)
82mm pistons to lower compression to 8.2:1
Piston rings for above pistons
4 button sintered copper performance clutch
Log-type exhaust manifold
63mm down-pipe
Upgraded 10Bar fuel pump
Setrab oil cooler including steel braid hose and relocation plate
VDO Boost gauge
Blow-off valve
Kingdragon performance air filter
Dual boost control kit
Charge piping color coded with BOV installed
Heat plate cover (covers exhaust manifold)
Asbestos exhaust heat wrap
Complete gasket set
Silicone connector hose and vacuum piping
All fittings, screws, clamps, t-pieces, and mounting hardware
Step-by-step instruction book including photos