Octane Booster
11-18-2005, 12:07 PM
#1
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Vehicle: 2000 Hyundai Tiburon
Just wondering if any boosted members are running octane booster with there setups?
Where I live the best fuel I can get at the pumps is 91 octane. Now with high boost levels I am getting some pinging and have to remove a load of timing. But by removig the timing I am increasing the EGT's. The easiest solution for me would to lower boost level and add in timing to help with egt temps. But there will be no lower the boost cool.gif .
Now I could use water/alky injection to help with my situation but its tricky to setup correctly and get it running perfectly.
So I am playing the idea of using Toluene to increase the octane of fuel.
Here are some examples of how much it can increase the octane rating.
Samples are using 92 octane, 91 will obvioulsy yield lower octane
Toluene Fuel
10%...........94.2 Octane
20%...........96.4 Octane
30%...........98.6 Octane
Anybody here have any experience with this stuff?
Or anybody with additional information or Opinions on using it?
here is a link for some more info on it http://evo.jedinite.com/toluene.html
Where I live the best fuel I can get at the pumps is 91 octane. Now with high boost levels I am getting some pinging and have to remove a load of timing. But by removig the timing I am increasing the EGT's. The easiest solution for me would to lower boost level and add in timing to help with egt temps. But there will be no lower the boost cool.gif .
Now I could use water/alky injection to help with my situation but its tricky to setup correctly and get it running perfectly.
So I am playing the idea of using Toluene to increase the octane of fuel.
Here are some examples of how much it can increase the octane rating.
Samples are using 92 octane, 91 will obvioulsy yield lower octane
Toluene Fuel
10%...........94.2 Octane
20%...........96.4 Octane
30%...........98.6 Octane
Anybody here have any experience with this stuff?
Or anybody with additional information or Opinions on using it?
here is a link for some more info on it http://evo.jedinite.com/toluene.html
11-18-2005, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE (Turbomustangs.com)
Turbomustangs.com along with Steve Cole Enterprises Inc (username: Karl Hungus) has completed some preliminary testing with the environmentally friendly, cheaper than 91 Octane, E85 fuel blend.
First off what is E85? E85, is a motor fuel blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline to be used in flex-fuel vehicles. Ethanol is alcohol used in transportation fuels. It is a high-octane, liquid fuel, produced by the fermentation of plant sugars. In
the United States, ethanol is typically produced from corn and other grain products, although in the future it may be economically produced from other biomass resources.
Benefits:
It has a motor octane rating of 104-108, it is also quite cold to the touch. It is currently about 1.99 per gallon, while 91 Octane is approximately 3.30 a gallon. E85 is cleaner burning, emitting a lot less greenhouse gasses. It is also a renewable resource. To top it off it is made 100% within the confines of the USA.
Cons:
It takes more of this fuel to create the same energy as regular gasoline. Therefore your car will use more fuel and you will see a decrease of approximately 10-15% in fuel economy. To make big horsepower you will need more fuel pump and more injector. Many people state that the fuel is corrosive and it could have adverse effects on aluminum fuel rails, injector o-rings and fuel lines. But so far in 9 months of testing we have seen no such side effects.
Test Car
1995 Mustang GT street car, 331 cubic inch, custom twin turbo system with twin T70 p-trims w/ .58 AR, T56 tranny, solid roller: 242/236, .600 lift.
Fuel System: 3, 255lph Walbro in line fuel pumps, 160# injectors.
No alky, no nitrous, no ice on the intake, etc.
The first thing we did was add 40% fuel to the fuel map under WOT. We also added about 20% fuel in part throttle areas. We were tuning using a regular gasoline wideband air fuel ratio of 14:1 at part throttle. On the dyno the car made the best and cleanest power at 12:1.
At 6 psi of boost and 35 degrees total timing the car made 575rwhp from 6000rpm until 7500rpm. The power never fell off. We tried less timing but the car didn’t respond well and the power curve was sloppier. At 13psi and about 29 degrees of timing we made 872rwhp. At 20psi and ~24 degrees of timing we made 989rwhp.
At 30 psi and 20 degrees of timing we ended up with 1066rwhp. The fuel injectors were at 75% duty cycle at this power level. Whereas with gasoline they were at about 55%. The fuel pressure was also slightly falling off at the top. The lack of a large power increase from 20-30psi is due to the tiny exhaust housings on this street car.
In total we made 16 dyno pulls and we never heard any detonation, but we did hit fuel cut a few times during testing. The next day the spark plugs were pulled and there may have been slight detonation in 2 of the cylinders because the porcelain was speckled. However the car still runs fine. This is definitely a very impressive fuel.
I also want to point out how impressed I am with this solid roller setup. Sure it is slightly noisier than my tiny hydro cam. But you can’t argue with that sick power curve. At all boost levels the car makes peak power at 6000rpm and holds it solid until 7500rpm, I am sure it would pull up to 8000rpm no problem. Steve has also tried a larger hydraulic cam to get the same results but it just didn’t work. The cam was a comp extreme energy hyd roller: 248 @ .050 on int and exh, 114 lsa. The car also had larger 74mm turbos at the time but the power would peak at 6500rpm and drop like a rock, even with expensive valve springs. With the new small solid roller cam the car even lugs along at 1500rpm no problem and idles fine at 900rpm.
To learn more about E85 and to check for stations in your area please go here:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85t.../e85_fuel.html
PLEASE CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE DYNO RUNS IN .JPG FORMAT:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/...95/coleruns.jpg
Video:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/...5/stevedyno.wmv
First off what is E85? E85, is a motor fuel blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline to be used in flex-fuel vehicles. Ethanol is alcohol used in transportation fuels. It is a high-octane, liquid fuel, produced by the fermentation of plant sugars. In
the United States, ethanol is typically produced from corn and other grain products, although in the future it may be economically produced from other biomass resources.
Benefits:
It has a motor octane rating of 104-108, it is also quite cold to the touch. It is currently about 1.99 per gallon, while 91 Octane is approximately 3.30 a gallon. E85 is cleaner burning, emitting a lot less greenhouse gasses. It is also a renewable resource. To top it off it is made 100% within the confines of the USA.
Cons:
It takes more of this fuel to create the same energy as regular gasoline. Therefore your car will use more fuel and you will see a decrease of approximately 10-15% in fuel economy. To make big horsepower you will need more fuel pump and more injector. Many people state that the fuel is corrosive and it could have adverse effects on aluminum fuel rails, injector o-rings and fuel lines. But so far in 9 months of testing we have seen no such side effects.
Test Car
1995 Mustang GT street car, 331 cubic inch, custom twin turbo system with twin T70 p-trims w/ .58 AR, T56 tranny, solid roller: 242/236, .600 lift.
Fuel System: 3, 255lph Walbro in line fuel pumps, 160# injectors.
No alky, no nitrous, no ice on the intake, etc.
The first thing we did was add 40% fuel to the fuel map under WOT. We also added about 20% fuel in part throttle areas. We were tuning using a regular gasoline wideband air fuel ratio of 14:1 at part throttle. On the dyno the car made the best and cleanest power at 12:1.
At 6 psi of boost and 35 degrees total timing the car made 575rwhp from 6000rpm until 7500rpm. The power never fell off. We tried less timing but the car didn’t respond well and the power curve was sloppier. At 13psi and about 29 degrees of timing we made 872rwhp. At 20psi and ~24 degrees of timing we made 989rwhp.
At 30 psi and 20 degrees of timing we ended up with 1066rwhp. The fuel injectors were at 75% duty cycle at this power level. Whereas with gasoline they were at about 55%. The fuel pressure was also slightly falling off at the top. The lack of a large power increase from 20-30psi is due to the tiny exhaust housings on this street car.
In total we made 16 dyno pulls and we never heard any detonation, but we did hit fuel cut a few times during testing. The next day the spark plugs were pulled and there may have been slight detonation in 2 of the cylinders because the porcelain was speckled. However the car still runs fine. This is definitely a very impressive fuel.
I also want to point out how impressed I am with this solid roller setup. Sure it is slightly noisier than my tiny hydro cam. But you can’t argue with that sick power curve. At all boost levels the car makes peak power at 6000rpm and holds it solid until 7500rpm, I am sure it would pull up to 8000rpm no problem. Steve has also tried a larger hydraulic cam to get the same results but it just didn’t work. The cam was a comp extreme energy hyd roller: 248 @ .050 on int and exh, 114 lsa. The car also had larger 74mm turbos at the time but the power would peak at 6500rpm and drop like a rock, even with expensive valve springs. With the new small solid roller cam the car even lugs along at 1500rpm no problem and idles fine at 900rpm.
To learn more about E85 and to check for stations in your area please go here:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85t.../e85_fuel.html
PLEASE CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE DYNO RUNS IN .JPG FORMAT:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/...95/coleruns.jpg
Video:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/...5/stevedyno.wmv
cool.gif
____________________________________
Fuel System: 3, 255lph Walbro in line fuel pumps, 160# injectors.
wholy balls thats alot of juice!
many diffrent viewpoints from a non-car prespective
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Aug01...thanol.hrs.html
http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/ethanol.htm
11-18-2005, 02:07 PM
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Gary, I've read an article in a Ukrainian magazine about octan boosters. They tested boosters and results were very crappy, it was very small gain.
Here I posted the results of that test :
http://www.rdtiburon.com/index.php?showtop...l=octan+booster
but, who knows, maybe not all octan busters are like that. just FYI.
Here I posted the results of that test :
http://www.rdtiburon.com/index.php?showtop...l=octan+booster
but, who knows, maybe not all octan busters are like that. just FYI.
11-18-2005, 03:51 PM
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^That's what I've heard. Octane boosters are, in general, crappy. I read somewhere many years ago where they did a comparison between major octane boost brands and NONE of them delievered the promised octance boost and one of them even lowered the octane!
11-18-2005, 04:00 PM
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To "increase" your octane, you could install a catch can. This will eliminate the oil vapors in you mixture. Those vapors decrease your octane. Just by doing that you will be good for a few more psi before pinging versus no catch can.
11-18-2005, 05:25 PM
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The point of any octane booster is not to "increase performance"; it's to increase octane. Now, on a stock or near-stock engine, increasing the octane of gasoline has absolutely no effect.
The more you increase octane, the more difficult the fuel is hard to ignite. Read this well. It's not the other way around. Thus, high-octane gasoline is used to prevent ping or pre-ignition.
Toluene is supposed to be cheap when bought in big quantities (it's used in a lot of paint chemicals) and is effective as an octane booster. However, it's highly toxic (ie, don't touch it) and produces more pollution. But it works.
The more you increase octane, the more difficult the fuel is hard to ignite. Read this well. It's not the other way around. Thus, high-octane gasoline is used to prevent ping or pre-ignition.
Toluene is supposed to be cheap when bought in big quantities (it's used in a lot of paint chemicals) and is effective as an octane booster. However, it's highly toxic (ie, don't touch it) and produces more pollution. But it works.
11-18-2005, 06:12 PM
#8
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High octane kills cats and o2 sensors. Therefore, your off the shelf octane boosters aren't supposed to add 10 points to your tank.
Toulene can be bought at Sherwin Williams (if you have one), or a major paint store.
Toulene can be bought at Sherwin Williams (if you have one), or a major paint store.
11-18-2005, 06:24 PM
#9
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Vehicle: x3 accent gk tiburon santa fe
Caution wit hthe toluene,
i had an engine appart last month,a big block chevy,high compression,large rolelr cams,good heads
when i've built the engine 1 year ago it ran quite well,but needed good fuel, so for the first month the guy used either a mix of race gas and pump gas or a mix of av gas and pump gas wih good result
then the engine started to have detonation problems..
tied a few tricks to calm it down with out succes, asked what he changed in his habits or if he had other stuff done to engine,
only thing that changed was that he used toluene and pump gas instead of the more expensive race or av gas
so,i really wanted to know what was happening, i removed the cylinder heads and what i saw was quite ugly
the toluene while burning much slower left a very thick residue on the pistons tops and the combustion chambers,cleaned all the goo,put it back together,put good gas in it and gone was the detonation
i had an engine appart last month,a big block chevy,high compression,large rolelr cams,good heads
when i've built the engine 1 year ago it ran quite well,but needed good fuel, so for the first month the guy used either a mix of race gas and pump gas or a mix of av gas and pump gas wih good result
then the engine started to have detonation problems..
tied a few tricks to calm it down with out succes, asked what he changed in his habits or if he had other stuff done to engine,
only thing that changed was that he used toluene and pump gas instead of the more expensive race or av gas
so,i really wanted to know what was happening, i removed the cylinder heads and what i saw was quite ugly
the toluene while burning much slower left a very thick residue on the pistons tops and the combustion chambers,cleaned all the goo,put it back together,put good gas in it and gone was the detonation
11-18-2005, 08:10 PM
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http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm
scc had a octane booster comparison a while back here... or maybe it was turbo. anyways try there. unless the tib is track only i don't think i'd wanna run octane booster all the time. why not a boost controller for high and low octane?
edit:btw, just how were you planning on adding the toulene? 30% you going to put in like 3 or 4 gallons of it each time you fill up.
scc had a octane booster comparison a while back here... or maybe it was turbo. anyways try there. unless the tib is track only i don't think i'd wanna run octane booster all the time. why not a boost controller for high and low octane?
edit:btw, just how were you planning on adding the toulene? 30% you going to put in like 3 or 4 gallons of it each time you fill up.