Obd Scanner And Some Other Questions
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From: York. About 2hrs from Philly and 4 hours from Pittsburgh
I've been doing a lot of reading and I need to get an obd scanner to begin tuning. Any suggestions on which to get? Also, if I only have one serial connecter on my laptop, how would I connect that and my smt6 at the same time (not exactly computer literate haha.)
With no tuning what-so-ever done to my car, I took it out for a very short ride (the smt6 was connected but nothing was done with any of the maps). When I first turned on the car it ran perfectly fine (open loop I believe.) At the first stop sign once the car was warm and I'm assuming it was in closed loop, the car shut off. So i revved the engine when I turned the car back on and held it at 2000 rpms until I was ready to go through the stop sign and it ran ok until a downhill where I let of the gas completely and the car shut off again. I have to say I'm a little confused by this. Any suggestions to why?
I want to thank Jay-M again for that URD article on tuning.
From what I gather from the URD article, this should be a "rough order" of steps for tuning:
Hook up obd scanner
force fuel trims to around 0%
Fill in the entire fuel map with a value (though I'm not sure how to determine this value)
tune with the wideband afr gauge for boosted areas of map.
I am extremely new to this and I will admit that I am going to have a lot of questions in the near future. Any help is appreciated and thanks in advance.
With no tuning what-so-ever done to my car, I took it out for a very short ride (the smt6 was connected but nothing was done with any of the maps). When I first turned on the car it ran perfectly fine (open loop I believe.) At the first stop sign once the car was warm and I'm assuming it was in closed loop, the car shut off. So i revved the engine when I turned the car back on and held it at 2000 rpms until I was ready to go through the stop sign and it ran ok until a downhill where I let of the gas completely and the car shut off again. I have to say I'm a little confused by this. Any suggestions to why?
I want to thank Jay-M again for that URD article on tuning.
From what I gather from the URD article, this should be a "rough order" of steps for tuning:
Hook up obd scanner
force fuel trims to around 0%
Fill in the entire fuel map with a value (though I'm not sure how to determine this value)
tune with the wideband afr gauge for boosted areas of map.
I am extremely new to this and I will admit that I am going to have a lot of questions in the near future. Any help is appreciated and thanks in advance.
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From: Tampa/St Petersburg
Vehicle: Turbocharged 2001 Hyundai Tiburon
your a little confused man, we dont have OBD tuners for our cars (yet)
SMT-6 has to be hard wired into your ecu, but then you said you already have the SMT hooked up, so maybe im confused too
Are you looking to datastream your ecu?? i dont see why you would need to, your smt-6 will give you all the information you need if you have it hooked up right...
SMT-6 has to be hard wired into your ecu, but then you said you already have the SMT hooked up, so maybe im confused too
Are you looking to datastream your ecu?? i dont see why you would need to, your smt-6 will give you all the information you need if you have it hooked up right...
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From: Tampa/St Petersburg
Vehicle: Turbocharged 2001 Hyundai Tiburon
you dont need that to tune with the SMT-6
For the injection, you just adjust the RPMxDeflection (8X16) map and it multiplies that number by the 1X16 (pressure reading) map, if you replaced the primaries you probably want to grab a map from somebody else (yamaha perhaps) and fine tune to suit your application.
You will have to do some calibrations, if you havent already, but hit up Denisst99 as he is the master at that
For the injection, you just adjust the RPMxDeflection (8X16) map and it multiplies that number by the 1X16 (pressure reading) map, if you replaced the primaries you probably want to grab a map from somebody else (yamaha perhaps) and fine tune to suit your application.
You will have to do some calibrations, if you havent already, but hit up Denisst99 as he is the master at that
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From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Vehicle: 01 Tiburon
Alex, Shimano and Everyone...
Here's the thing... Tuning while keeping an eye on your ECU fuel trims are closely tied to a single rail with larger injectors setup and not really with the dual rail setup.
If maps are not available for your specific setup, this is where it should all begin: This is where you can derive you base map, proper idling specs and etc.
In very brief explanation, here's why: (please be aware of the closed and open loop operation, i'm explaining this in closed loop terms)
- You installed larger injectors (ie: 440cc's). Now your car will run rich.
- W/o a piggyback's help, the ECU the will try to "trim" (measured in %) fuel down as much as it could until it sees an AFR equal to or close to 14.7
- ECU is limited on how much it can "trim" (+/- 45% max, i think) Anything more or less will result you into limp mode (CEL) and rough idle, fluctuating rpm/afr's, etc
- This is when the SMT-6 (or any other piggybacks) comes in play to help out the ECU keep you into the "trim" limits.
- Now, you want the SMT-6 (or any other piggybacks) to solely do the fuel stuff and keep the ECU out of it. This means keeping the ECU fuel trims equal or close to 0%
- One of the ways to see the fuel trims is through the use of an ODB Scanner
The following are some of my PM with supercow. I've sold my OBD Scanner and USB to Serial Adapater to him, quite some time ago
I will try to get supercow in here and get his .02 cents or just say something
Shimano, I can still acquire one... i'll contact you or you contact me through PM
Here's the thing... Tuning while keeping an eye on your ECU fuel trims are closely tied to a single rail with larger injectors setup and not really with the dual rail setup.
If maps are not available for your specific setup, this is where it should all begin: This is where you can derive you base map, proper idling specs and etc.
In very brief explanation, here's why: (please be aware of the closed and open loop operation, i'm explaining this in closed loop terms)
- You installed larger injectors (ie: 440cc's). Now your car will run rich.
- W/o a piggyback's help, the ECU the will try to "trim" (measured in %) fuel down as much as it could until it sees an AFR equal to or close to 14.7
- ECU is limited on how much it can "trim" (+/- 45% max, i think) Anything more or less will result you into limp mode (CEL) and rough idle, fluctuating rpm/afr's, etc
- This is when the SMT-6 (or any other piggybacks) comes in play to help out the ECU keep you into the "trim" limits.
- Now, you want the SMT-6 (or any other piggybacks) to solely do the fuel stuff and keep the ECU out of it. This means keeping the ECU fuel trims equal or close to 0%
- One of the ways to see the fuel trims is through the use of an ODB Scanner
The following are some of my PM with supercow. I've sold my OBD Scanner and USB to Serial Adapater to him, quite some time ago
QUOTE
anyways, my scantool is similar to the one they have at scantool.net
but not that expensive as theirs
here is a list of free programs/software that you can use with the scantool:
http://pages.infinit.net/jsenk/ - OBD Logger
http://www.scantool.net/?mode=displaySoftw...ry=ScanTool.net –Scantool.Net
http://www.qcontinuum.org/obdgauge/ - OBD Gauge
http://www.wgsoft.de/ - OBD-II ScanMaster
http://www.obd2crazy.com/software.html - obd2crazy
http://www.scantool.net/?mode=displaySoftw...y=Third%20Party – Many Others
Personally, i have use the scantool.net software one the most but i like the features of the OBD-II ScanMaster better... check it out and read up on it. You can even download the software(s) now and see how it is and what are the functions and reading you can derive from the scantool
Basically this device plug into your obd port and on the opposite side there is a rs232 (com) port that can connect to your laptop. It comes with a serial cable (around 4 feet) and this will allow you to have enough slack to place your laptop on the passenger seat.
The only thing is that if you have a laptop that has only one serial port and you will need to have the smt-6 software to be running and the scantool software at the same time. You can use a usb to serial converter cable to remedy this or acquire a laptop (older one) that has 2 serial ports. But personally for me, when i've used it... my laptop only have one serial port and i didn't have a usb to serial adpater, so i just toggled back and forth smt-6 and scantool and just swap them on the serial port. It worked ok thanks to the freeze function of the scantool and log function of the smt-6
but basically this obd scan tool is far more useful then reading the cel code. it is a complete advanced diagnostic tool that will look at most or even all of the functions of the car. here are some of the readings that you can derive from it:
Read diagnostic trouble codes, both generic and manufacturer-specific, and display their meaning (over 3000 generic code definitions in the database).
Clear trouble codes and turn off the MIL ("Check Engine" light)
Display current sensor data, including:
Engine RPM
Calculated Load Value
Coolant Temperature
Fuel System Status
Vehicle Speed
Short Term Fuel Trim
Long Term Fuel Trim
Intake Manifold Pressure
Timing Advance
Intake Air Temperature
Air Flow Rate
Absolute Throttle Position
Oxygen sensor voltages/associated short term fuel trims
Fuel System status
Fuel Pressure
Many others...
Upcoming Features:
Data graphing and logging
Freeze Frame data
Continuous and Non-Continuous Oxygen Sensor test results
but not that expensive as theirs
here is a list of free programs/software that you can use with the scantool:
http://pages.infinit.net/jsenk/ - OBD Logger
http://www.scantool.net/?mode=displaySoftw...ry=ScanTool.net –Scantool.Net
http://www.qcontinuum.org/obdgauge/ - OBD Gauge
http://www.wgsoft.de/ - OBD-II ScanMaster
http://www.obd2crazy.com/software.html - obd2crazy
http://www.scantool.net/?mode=displaySoftw...y=Third%20Party – Many Others
Personally, i have use the scantool.net software one the most but i like the features of the OBD-II ScanMaster better... check it out and read up on it. You can even download the software(s) now and see how it is and what are the functions and reading you can derive from the scantool
Basically this device plug into your obd port and on the opposite side there is a rs232 (com) port that can connect to your laptop. It comes with a serial cable (around 4 feet) and this will allow you to have enough slack to place your laptop on the passenger seat.
The only thing is that if you have a laptop that has only one serial port and you will need to have the smt-6 software to be running and the scantool software at the same time. You can use a usb to serial converter cable to remedy this or acquire a laptop (older one) that has 2 serial ports. But personally for me, when i've used it... my laptop only have one serial port and i didn't have a usb to serial adpater, so i just toggled back and forth smt-6 and scantool and just swap them on the serial port. It worked ok thanks to the freeze function of the scantool and log function of the smt-6
but basically this obd scan tool is far more useful then reading the cel code. it is a complete advanced diagnostic tool that will look at most or even all of the functions of the car. here are some of the readings that you can derive from it:
Read diagnostic trouble codes, both generic and manufacturer-specific, and display their meaning (over 3000 generic code definitions in the database).
Clear trouble codes and turn off the MIL ("Check Engine" light)
Display current sensor data, including:
Engine RPM
Calculated Load Value
Coolant Temperature
Fuel System Status
Vehicle Speed
Short Term Fuel Trim
Long Term Fuel Trim
Intake Manifold Pressure
Timing Advance
Intake Air Temperature
Air Flow Rate
Absolute Throttle Position
Oxygen sensor voltages/associated short term fuel trims
Fuel System status
Fuel Pressure
Many others...
Upcoming Features:
Data graphing and logging
Freeze Frame data
Continuous and Non-Continuous Oxygen Sensor test results
I will try to get supercow in here and get his .02 cents or just say something
Shimano, I can still acquire one... i'll contact you or you contact me through PM
Thread Starter
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From: York. About 2hrs from Philly and 4 hours from Pittsburgh
^^^ Alrite, that cleared alot of questions up in my mind. Good info Jay M. Still a big question though: Do you think the car keeps shutting off because its is to rich at idle? I'm thinking thats what it is.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Ashland, KY
Vehicle: 2001/Hyundai/Tiburon
you should look through some of my old threads, looks like you following a path similar to mine.
The point of using the scaning tool is so that you can see what the car is doing. Your stock ecu never really knows that the smt6 is there. So when that cel pops up you can go in with your scan tool and see why it thinks somethings screwed up so you can fix it accordingly.
here's a brand new map I worked on just the other day. Made my cel go away and I'm running 8 psi with 440cc injectors.
The point of using the scaning tool is so that you can see what the car is doing. Your stock ecu never really knows that the smt6 is there. So when that cel pops up you can go in with your scan tool and see why it thinks somethings screwed up so you can fix it accordingly.
here's a brand new map I worked on just the other day. Made my cel go away and I'm running 8 psi with 440cc injectors.
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Vehicle: 2001/Hyundai/Tiburon
if you want to know, i have bought from scantool.net.
you can use the "elm" version, which covers all protocols, but its kinda expensive. we use the ISO protocol, and the unit works great in our cars. looks like they just upped the price of that too though so i dont know what you want to do.
you can use the "elm" version, which covers all protocols, but its kinda expensive. we use the ISO protocol, and the unit works great in our cars. looks like they just upped the price of that too though so i dont know what you want to do.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,334
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From: Tampa/St Petersburg
Vehicle: Turbocharged 2001 Hyundai Tiburon
Yah i thought about it yesterday after i posted and figured he replaced the primaries which is a different story, which is why i recomended he grabbed a map from somebody who already did the dirty work
Just another reason that dual rail pwns cool.gif
Just another reason that dual rail pwns cool.gif
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Vehicle: 01 Tiburon
^^^
Yes, the dual rail rocks fing02.gif does by-pass all of this fuel trim/closed loop tuning stuff (kees the ECU out of fueling), now especially if you have premade maps done by other guys (with a similar or just kinda similar setup as yours)
Shimano,
This result could be one of many things, you know... If you can verify with a wideband that you are really running super rich before shut off, then that will be one or exactly the factor(s). Yes, the engine can shut off when it is "drowned" with too much fuel.
Now, as i have told you... i can still acquire the same OBD Scantool as supercow's... just contact me on pm
Also, why dont you try supercow's maps for the moment, but mind you it might not be 100% specific to your setup but it's a start... Oh, read up again and againe on the URD tuning article and try to understand it fully.
Yes, the dual rail rocks fing02.gif does by-pass all of this fuel trim/closed loop tuning stuff (kees the ECU out of fueling), now especially if you have premade maps done by other guys (with a similar or just kinda similar setup as yours)
QUOTE (shimanomtber87 @ Jan 5 2007, 10:47 AM)
^^^ Alrite, that cleared alot of questions up in my mind. Good info Jay M. Still a big question though: Do you think the car keeps shutting off because its is to rich at idle? I'm thinking thats what it is.
Shimano,
This result could be one of many things, you know... If you can verify with a wideband that you are really running super rich before shut off, then that will be one or exactly the factor(s). Yes, the engine can shut off when it is "drowned" with too much fuel.
Now, as i have told you... i can still acquire the same OBD Scantool as supercow's... just contact me on pm
Also, why dont you try supercow's maps for the moment, but mind you it might not be 100% specific to your setup but it's a start... Oh, read up again and againe on the URD tuning article and try to understand it fully.
