Enthalpy

That's right, Tommy's (TibbyTib) car has been the guinea pig for a Haltech E8 EMS, custom turbo system designed by Tommy and me and a plug and play EMS harness wired by me. I did the EMS tuning on the dyno here at the shop as well.

It has fully sequential injection. This means he can reap the fuel savings (and cost savings) of sequential injection. In addition, it utilizes every stock feature, including A/C and emissions equipment like the purge system. This means he can still pass emissions!

He has now put quite a few thousand miles on his car, including a trip to Albuquerque for the big meet (we live in Denver). The harness is working quite well, as is the car and the tune!

Soon, I will be posting the information on buying a harness for the E8 (or any other EMS, if it's capable of using the Beta 1's sensors and actuators). However, for now, enjoy a few tidbits of the information one would need to collect to undertake such an operation:

First off, let's start with his dyno:



KIDDING!! That's from a Supra I recently tuned. A little joke. Tommy's car is making 192 at the wheels uncorrected for altitude with a NICE low-end torque (which is what we were shooting for). This car is FUN to drive, which is what low-end torque equates to.

Here's a scope trace of the cam and the ignition. Note the ignition flyback cross-talking into the cam signal! This can be a BIG problem with cheap EMSes!



Here is the Idle Air Valve's 2 circuits. NOTE - There are 2 different types of 3-wire IAC valves out there! If you get the wrong type of valve, you won't feed the valve the correct signal! This is important when doing a ground-up EMS adaptation! The tuner needs to understand the diffrences between the two.



Here's the cam vs. injector, to give me approximate sequential injection timing calculations. Note the flyback on the low-impedance injector! Yet another thing cheap EMSes can't handle.



There are tons of other traces I used to calculate appropriate ignition dwell, cam trigger phasing and correct trigger offset values. You will have the option of buying a base map from me for the E8 that will run your modifications you have done to your car out of the box so you can fire up the car and gently drive it to your local tuner for accurate tuning. I have maps for NA and turbo and for basically every injector size. I do not have base maps for nitrous, but you shouldn't use a base map for that anyway. Nitrous should be carefully tuned by a qualified technician.

tibbytib

Great write up man! yep, my car is running great! The plug and play harness is friggin awesome! Never had to cut into my stock loom. plugged right into my stock harness! Tune seems to be great! Car is very torquey down low and pulls steady all the way to redline. Got 33 MPG coming home from ABQ, and I was moderately over the speed limit (90-100) the entire trip home.

Seriously, the car runs as if it came from the factory turbo charged. I couldn't have asked for better drivablity. Thanks Damon!

REDZMAN

Good to see you finally posting here my man. I'll keep up to date with your progress, as I do eventually plan to dual charge.

Just to do it.

Ericy321

Thats my plan here eventually. Glad to see this working. Will it work with my PRS? I need to start looking into some options with it.

DTN

Our cars use the reverse EMF pulse from the injectors to verify proper operation. When the coil field colapses, the voltage runs backwards. I think I'm looking at the cam though.. I'm not making much sence of these readings. Which one is the injector? The top looks like what I'd expect from an injector. The blue one has that odd dip in it which makes no sence.

This brings up another good question. How does this work for sensor troubleshooting? If you had a bad sensor, how would you know if it was out of tollerance?

Can the EMS perform a self-test by plugging in manufacturer voltage tolerances while driving or resitance values to be tested durring start up?

Also, was this performed with a auxiliary scope or an internal scope from the EMS?

Enthalpy

Twin Charge? I'm assuming you mean super and turbocharging combined. If so, YUMMY! That's a tuner's wet dream.


Reverse EMF is also called coil flyback. Verifying a portion of the injector's operation that way makes total sense. You could also use flyback to see if the impedance has changed. Genius. I did not know the ECU did this. I learn something every day doing this. It's what I love about tuning.

Cam is on the bottom, as it carries the hall effect "switching" square wave. The flyback you see on the cam signal is from the primary side of the ignition coil. The top wave is the injector pulse with flyback. Since this was taken at idle, the pulsewidth at idle is very small, as expected. If you were to blow that time frame up, you could see the exact spot where the pintle hits the stop, as that changes the inductor's inductance a little. In order to see the injector flyback, I had to ground the o-scope on the +12 volt pin, as flyback isn't observed on the ground pin with a pull-to-ground output. This is probably why it looks a bit odd. Good eye!


I looked into the PRS before advising Tommy on EMS choices. I must say, I wouldn't recommend that EMS to anybody. It has a rather bad reputation for quality and the customer service is sub par at best. Haltech is just the opposite, which is a big reason we decided on the E8.

If you already have the PRS, I can take a closer look and see if it has what is needed to drive the accessories in this car.

I can't believe I forgot the pictures of the harness adapter. I used a hacked up stock ECU for its plug and perfect mounting base. This is why I will require a stock ECU for any harness that I make for people.




Here's what I mean about the flyback. These are images I took to get a feeling for how the factory injector phasing changed with engine speed. This sped up tuning quite a bit! Note - These traces are with respect to ground, so no flyback will be observed. Also note the ascending lead tooth of the crank wave, which indicates I'm pulling from the crank A circuit.

Here it is at 800 RPM, idling:


...and here it is at 2000 RPM, holding steady to avoid evoking acceleration fueling:


The 2000 RPM wave exceeded the 20 volt max of the o-scope, hence the clipping. You don't see this in the first wave because variable reluctor triggers increase in amplitude with increasing engine speed.

JonGTR

Please give us an estimate on the harness.

I'd definately switch ECU's for this.

Enthalpy

I'm working that up soon. The sticky part is the stock ECU. I would have to either ask for one that I can completely destroy or source one for the customer. The wiring length (which dictates where you can mount it) would also be a factor in the cost. Tommy wound up mounting this one behind his dash, just below the water-tight seal under the rain catch. This made the wires too long, but no biggie. Another spot we were toying with was behind and below the HVAC controls in the center console, but Tommy already has some electronic goodies there, so there was no room. Also, if it's going to an ECU I'm unfamiliar with, I would have to figure out the ECU output scheme to guarantee it would work. I would also have to have a set of factory equipment the owner has installed and still wants to work (like A/C and purge).

I would have to know those tidbits first.

Cypher

not to be a downer, but even with all the stock stuff working you won't pass emissions because you've lost OBDII

tibbytib

Not here in Denver. I watched a Neon pass on complete stand alone. I was stumped as well. Then I asked the manager in charge of the emissions shop and was told that OBD II is not a means to pass or fail. If you do not have OBD II then they mark it as NA on your sheet, do a sniffer, and if you pass the sniffer, you get your emissions for registration. Check your local laws and talk to your local emissions place to be sure. I think every state and county probably has their own rules about this, so if you are thinking of going standalone, then do the research in your area.

Once I finally asked and found out that I could go stand alone, thats the choice I made. But if I had never asked, I would have never known. fing02.gif