A Few Turbo Planning Questions
01-30-2002, 12:30 AM
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A Few Turbo Planning Questions
1) I have a gauge pod that will hold six gauges...five small and one big'un. I'm trying to figure out which gauges I might want to put in there. Since there's already a tach in the console, I don't need a monster-tach. Instead, I figure I'll get a monster-boost gauge to put there, instead. As for the other five...I figure I'd need an oil pressure and an oil temperature gauge. I remember seeing somewhere online some double-needle gauges, and thought I might get a double IAT gauge, one pre-compressor and the other post-compressor, a double EGT, either pre- and post-turbine, or something along those lines. Now, for the fifth one, which would be more useful, an air/fuel ratio gauge, or a transmission temperature gauge? Any other general comments regarding preferred gauges is also welcome.
2) If you have an air-water intercooler, do you need to have a radiator somewhere for the IC water?
3) I asked a few times before, and got zero response, so I'll try yet again...the current 4-1 Shark Racing headers are two-piece, in the pictures shown. Would the top 4-1 piece be an acceptable turbo manifold (aside from the drawback of how far the exhaust gases would have to go to get to the turbo)? Are they equal-length, or close to equal-length? I'm trying to find some non-log-style manifold options, as well as a possible cheap alternative to Korean-imported equal-length headers.
That's about all I've got for now!
2) If you have an air-water intercooler, do you need to have a radiator somewhere for the IC water?
3) I asked a few times before, and got zero response, so I'll try yet again...the current 4-1 Shark Racing headers are two-piece, in the pictures shown. Would the top 4-1 piece be an acceptable turbo manifold (aside from the drawback of how far the exhaust gases would have to go to get to the turbo)? Are they equal-length, or close to equal-length? I'm trying to find some non-log-style manifold options, as well as a possible cheap alternative to Korean-imported equal-length headers.
That's about all I've got for now!
01-30-2002, 06:17 AM
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Iago:
1) I have a gauge pod that will hold six gauges...five small and one big'un. I'm trying to figure out which gauges I might want to put in there. Since there's already a tach in the console, I don't need a monster-tach. Instead, I figure I'll get a monster-boost gauge to put there, instead. As for the other five...I figure I'd need an oil pressure and an oil temperature gauge. I remember seeing somewhere online some double-needle gauges, and thought I might get a double IAT gauge, one pre-compressor and the other post-compressor, a double EGT, either pre- and post-turbine, or something along those lines. Now, for the fifth one, which would be more useful, an air/fuel ratio gauge, or a transmission temperature gauge? Any other general comments regarding preferred gauges is also welcome.
IAT is just a "gadget" gauge. Even with the "dual" setup. It really won't provide you with any real usefull information, except the efficeny of your intercooler, and warn you of intercooler heat soak. That being said...unless you plan on doing road racing on a track somewhere, you should NEVER run into heatsoak issues with a properly sized intercooler.1) I have a gauge pod that will hold six gauges...five small and one big'un. I'm trying to figure out which gauges I might want to put in there. Since there's already a tach in the console, I don't need a monster-tach. Instead, I figure I'll get a monster-boost gauge to put there, instead. As for the other five...I figure I'd need an oil pressure and an oil temperature gauge. I remember seeing somewhere online some double-needle gauges, and thought I might get a double IAT gauge, one pre-compressor and the other post-compressor, a double EGT, either pre- and post-turbine, or something along those lines. Now, for the fifth one, which would be more useful, an air/fuel ratio gauge, or a transmission temperature gauge? Any other general comments regarding preferred gauges is also welcome.
On the "must have list" IMHO
Oil Temp
Oil Pressure
Coolant Temp
Boost
On the "maybe" or "nice to ahve list"
Fuel Pressure
IAT B4 Icooler
IAT After Icooler
EGT b4 turbo (EGT after turbo is useless)
CHT for all 4 cylinders
Westach makes some awesome gauges, and senders...but their prices are not cheap, and they are not "ricey". That means they are funcitonal, but don't look great.
QUOTE
Originally posted by Iago:
2) If you have an air-water intercooler, do you need to have a radiator somewhere for the IC water?
2) If you have an air-water intercooler, do you need to have a radiator somewhere for the IC water?
Most Water/air IC's I have seen use engine coolant to do their job. Thus you rely on your stock radiator do do the job. I'm no crazy about these setups, as the coolest the intake air charge can get is the lowest temp of the coolant. That is 180 degrees. WAY TO HOT!!
If you run a seperate water/cooling system for your water/air intercooler, yes, you will need some form of radiator, and some form of a storage tank. I reccomend using the 3 or 4 gallon foam filled fuel cells from www.summitracing.com to hold your extra supply of "coolant" for the water/air setup. They have large openings that would allow you to put ice in them, and you CAN remove the foam to littlerly fill them with ice and water. Just don't expect the ice to last long. You will also have to come up with some form of a high volume (2 to 5 gallons per minute), medium pressure (about 10-20 psi) 12V pump. I have not been able to find any. The best I have found was a 1.5 GPM pump, but it can only produce about 5 PSI, so it cannot push the coolant from the back end, to the front end, through an intercooler, and back to the back end to the tank at 1.5 GPM. It moves the water at a trickle...it just doesn't have the power. I have seen some larger water pumps, but they are MUCH larger and weight about 40 lbs. To heavy for my use. I'm thinking of biting the bullet and running a large fuel pump. It should be able to handle the volume and the pressure requirements.
QUOTE
Originally posted by Iago:
3) I asked a few times before, and got zero response, so I'll try yet again...the current 4-1 Shark Racing headers are two-piece, in the pictures shown. Would the top 4-1 piece be an acceptable turbo manifold (aside from the drawback of how far the exhaust gases would have to go to get to the turbo)? Are they equal-length, or close to equal-length? I'm trying to find some non-log-style manifold options, as well as a possible cheap alternative to Korean-imported equal-length headers.
3) I asked a few times before, and got zero response, so I'll try yet again...the current 4-1 Shark Racing headers are two-piece, in the pictures shown. Would the top 4-1 piece be an acceptable turbo manifold (aside from the drawback of how far the exhaust gases would have to go to get to the turbo)? Are they equal-length, or close to equal-length? I'm trying to find some non-log-style manifold options, as well as a possible cheap alternative to Korean-imported equal-length headers.
No. You would have to take off the standard mountin flange, and somehow weld on a proper mounting flange for your choice in turbos. You would also have to find a way to mount the turbo to the headers (a 90 degree elbow hose to get the turbo horizontal rather than vertial) then see if you had enough room in the engine comparment for all that piping and turbo.
You would be better off to see if the same guy who is builing an turbo exhaust manifold for Red, is willing to build one up for you.
01-30-2002, 06:43 AM
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The manifold I'm having built is NOT cheap either. You're probably even better off going with just an over-the-shelf cast iron manifold from Champion Auto (Korea) or maybe UFB will sell ya one.
John Urist, owner of Urist Racing and Development (placed 2nd in the world of NHRA Outlaw class with his 7.7 second turbo Mustang that he built entirely himself) is going to build a tuned tubular mild steel 16 gauge custom manifold for my turbo. Base price starts at $750 and can go as high as $1000 depending on any unforseen issues.
Once he's built mine, he can use the jig to make others at a lesser cost. It will probably still be a $600+ part. But this will be the absolute end-all be-all of turbo manifolding for the BETA, at least in the US of A
-Red-
John Urist, owner of Urist Racing and Development (placed 2nd in the world of NHRA Outlaw class with his 7.7 second turbo Mustang that he built entirely himself) is going to build a tuned tubular mild steel 16 gauge custom manifold for my turbo. Base price starts at $750 and can go as high as $1000 depending on any unforseen issues.
Once he's built mine, he can use the jig to make others at a lesser cost. It will probably still be a $600+ part. But this will be the absolute end-all be-all of turbo manifolding for the BETA, at least in the US of A
-Red-
01-30-2002, 07:53 AM
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It's worth it to me to blow the extra money and get the best around. I assume Red is cool with others buying the header for less than he paid, since we don't have the development expenses...
Random - thanks for the guidance on the gauges. It'd be kinda nice to see how effective the IC was, even if it's not a must-have. I wasn't sure if there would be much usefulness for multiple EGT values, though...good to know. You don't think any sort of monitor on the transmission temperature would be worth while? It's an automatic, which seems to be more fragile, which is why I considered it.
A followup question....how many of these values does a Haltech setup need, or would a Haltech setup track, if asked nicely? Things like CHTemps would be really nice to track, but I dunno if I'd really need to see them (or do much about them) from the cockpit as much as I'd be interested in them on review after the run. Best-case scenario that I'm trying to get at would be plugging the senders into the ECU, and then recording the runs using the CarCode OBD-II reader we had that group buy on a few months ago...or whatever the equivalent plug-in to the Haltech setup would be, if it doesn't run off the same standard.
Regarding the water intercooler cooler...I agree that linking through the engine coolant would NOT be all that efficient of a setup. As for using a fuel pump to run the cooler...why is that "biting the bullet?" It sounds like a perfectly acceptable (and pretty damn smart) alternative to finding a normal water pump, if most aren't up to snuff.
Random - thanks for the guidance on the gauges. It'd be kinda nice to see how effective the IC was, even if it's not a must-have. I wasn't sure if there would be much usefulness for multiple EGT values, though...good to know. You don't think any sort of monitor on the transmission temperature would be worth while? It's an automatic, which seems to be more fragile, which is why I considered it.
A followup question....how many of these values does a Haltech setup need, or would a Haltech setup track, if asked nicely? Things like CHTemps would be really nice to track, but I dunno if I'd really need to see them (or do much about them) from the cockpit as much as I'd be interested in them on review after the run. Best-case scenario that I'm trying to get at would be plugging the senders into the ECU, and then recording the runs using the CarCode OBD-II reader we had that group buy on a few months ago...or whatever the equivalent plug-in to the Haltech setup would be, if it doesn't run off the same standard.
Regarding the water intercooler cooler...I agree that linking through the engine coolant would NOT be all that efficient of a setup. As for using a fuel pump to run the cooler...why is that "biting the bullet?" It sounds like a perfectly acceptable (and pretty damn smart) alternative to finding a normal water pump, if most aren't up to snuff.