E85 Conversion!
09-12-2008, 11:11 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey everyone,
My latest project has been to convert my Tiburon to run on E85 Fuel. Why you say? E85 is almost over a dollar cheaper than Premium, which my turbocharged car requires, and its 105 Octane. Need I say more? Well I've come to report complete success.
Now you can't just go throw E85 in your normal car because it has different fuel requirements. You will need approx 30% more fuel to effectively run E85. Luckily for I4 and V6 Owners a simple swap to 290cc injectors covers this requirement. I would also recommend upgrading your fuel pump to at least a 190lph, if returnless, or a 255lph if return style fueled. You will also need some sort of piggyback ECU capable of modifying the MAF/MAP signal as well as increasing timing to really take advantage of the 105 octane rating.
I don't have any dyno numbers yet, but stayed tuned!!
Let the discussion commence!! smile.gif
My latest project has been to convert my Tiburon to run on E85 Fuel. Why you say? E85 is almost over a dollar cheaper than Premium, which my turbocharged car requires, and its 105 Octane. Need I say more? Well I've come to report complete success.
Now you can't just go throw E85 in your normal car because it has different fuel requirements. You will need approx 30% more fuel to effectively run E85. Luckily for I4 and V6 Owners a simple swap to 290cc injectors covers this requirement. I would also recommend upgrading your fuel pump to at least a 190lph, if returnless, or a 255lph if return style fueled. You will also need some sort of piggyback ECU capable of modifying the MAF/MAP signal as well as increasing timing to really take advantage of the 105 octane rating.
I don't have any dyno numbers yet, but stayed tuned!!
Let the discussion commence!! smile.gif
09-12-2008, 11:16 AM
#2
Senior Member
I've been considering this as well. But, dont you have to replace fuel lines, fuel tank, and all the o-rings with composites that will stand up to the more corrosive and oxidizing effects of e85? I am running a Haltech and complete fuel system upgrades with my turbo, so as far as that goes, I think I am golden. But I have always worried about e85 eating out my fuel tank and corroding my lines, injectors, and eating my o-rings.
09-12-2008, 11:20 AM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most newer cars are designed to handle at least a 15% methanol/gasoline mix. Methanol is way more corrosive compared to Ethanol so you should be fine. Several people here with stock EVOs have done the conversion with no ill effects. smile.gif
09-12-2008, 01:33 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Los Lunas, New Mexico, USA.
Posts: 34,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon, 2004 Kia Sorento, 2010 Kia Soul
QUOTE (dmdicks @ Sep 12 2008, 11:11 AM)
Hey everyone,
My latest project has been to convert my Tiburon to run on E85 Fuel. Why you say? E85 is almost over a dollar cheaper than Premium, which my turbocharged car requires, and its 105 Octane. Need I say more? Well I've come to report complete success.
Now you can't just go throw E85 in your normal car because it has different fuel requirements. You will need approx 30% more fuel to effectively run E85. Luckily for I4 and V6 Owners a simple swap to 290cc injectors covers this requirement. I would also recommend upgrading your fuel pump to at least a 190lph, if returnless, or a 255lph if return style fueled. You will also need some sort of piggyback ECU capable of modifying the MAF/MAP signal as well as increasing timing to really take advantage of the 105 octane rating.
I don't have any dyno numbers yet, but stayed tuned!!
Let the discussion commence!! smile.gif
My latest project has been to convert my Tiburon to run on E85 Fuel. Why you say? E85 is almost over a dollar cheaper than Premium, which my turbocharged car requires, and its 105 Octane. Need I say more? Well I've come to report complete success.
Now you can't just go throw E85 in your normal car because it has different fuel requirements. You will need approx 30% more fuel to effectively run E85. Luckily for I4 and V6 Owners a simple swap to 290cc injectors covers this requirement. I would also recommend upgrading your fuel pump to at least a 190lph, if returnless, or a 255lph if return style fueled. You will also need some sort of piggyback ECU capable of modifying the MAF/MAP signal as well as increasing timing to really take advantage of the 105 octane rating.
I don't have any dyno numbers yet, but stayed tuned!!
Let the discussion commence!! smile.gif
So just swap the injectors, and manage the fueling/timing with a piggyback/standalone? I'm about to do a new fuel pump anyways. Hmm, I could do this easily.
Only problem is I would have to swap back for emissions testing.
Tom, as far as I've read, ethanol and methanol are different. Meth screws with the material while ethanol is fine (I've read reports of folks doing 60% gas and 40% ethanol blends with no problems whatsoever). There are a lot of folks selling ecu "adjustment" kits that act like a SAFC and adjust your fueling too, they are at the local car shows all the time.
DMDicks, get up some more info and specifics man, I'm VERY interested here.
09-12-2008, 02:11 PM
#6
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Pipestone, MN
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: 2000 Hyundia Tiburon
Make sure you have a few extra fuel filters on hand, the ethanol will clean a lot of crap out of you fuel tank, as well as your fuel lines. I was just thinking back to when we switched our farm fuels to bio fuels, wasn't terribly fun.
09-12-2008, 02:20 PM
#7
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wow... didn't know it was that easy. i would definately be interested in doing this to my SRT, i have a set of 682cc injectors laying around and will be getting an HPtuner in the future, so if its a relatively straight forward swap, i would do this for sure.. only thing is, in the end it will probably cost more than running premium fuel, but worth it IMO for the 105 octane.
09-12-2008, 02:57 PM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ethanol actually burns a lot cleaner when compared to petrol. Some of the EVO guys here actually gut their OE cats and still pass CO emissions with flying colors. What the lacky techs don't know won't hurt them.
I've heard people can have issues with junk in older fuel tanks, but my car is an 03 and has only ingested premium fuel from day one. No worries here. For other people who might not be the first owner I'd suggest additional fuel filters or just cleaning out the tank before throwing E85 in.
For me the setup was just that simple. I'm running a SMT-6 with a dual fuel rail and I just replaced my primary 190cc injectors with 290cc ones and started the car up. The OE ECU did the rest. I still have some fine tuning to do to get my fuel trims in line but that was basically it.
You see most modern cars tune based on a Lambda value not a calculated AFR value. Everyone knows that stoich is 14.7:1 for gasoline. What you may not know is Stoich for Ethanol is 9.6:1. What you also might not know is both of these values equal a Lambda value of 1.0. See where I'm going? If the ECUs only see a Lamda value then it's not going to know the difference between gasoline and E85. The key is getting about 30% larger injectors in place of your stockers so the ECU can supply the needed fuel to reach the lambda values its searching for. smile.gif Hince why my fuel trims are darn close to stock even though the injectors are 30% larger. smile.gif Make sense?
The OE ECU takes care of closed loop tuning all by itself! All I have to worry about is adding 30% more fuel in open loop and boosted conditions. Easy as pie! Why 30% more fuel? That is due to E85's lower energy content compared to gasoline. It takes about 30% more fuel to reach Ethanol's stoich mixture level. This is also why Flexfuel vehicles get worse MPG when running on E85.
The MAJOR upside to Ethanol is its superior detonation resistance. This is partly due to its 105 octane rating and the cooling effect of the Ethanol itself. smile.gif This means no need to retard ANY timing. In fact I'm advancing timing in my car under boost. smile.gif We all know what that means!
So in summary, this is what you need.
SMT-6 or similar fuel and timing controller
30-35% Larger primary injectors for Normally Aspirated tuning, plus a 2nd fuel rail for boosted conditions
at least a 190lph pump to supply the additional fuel flow needed for the larger injectors
A decent wideband gauge to monitor and tune
That's it!
Oh and 91 Octane is 3.90 and E85 is 2.60 near me so the lower E85 cost offsets the decreased fuel economy by a good margin.
I've heard people can have issues with junk in older fuel tanks, but my car is an 03 and has only ingested premium fuel from day one. No worries here. For other people who might not be the first owner I'd suggest additional fuel filters or just cleaning out the tank before throwing E85 in.
For me the setup was just that simple. I'm running a SMT-6 with a dual fuel rail and I just replaced my primary 190cc injectors with 290cc ones and started the car up. The OE ECU did the rest. I still have some fine tuning to do to get my fuel trims in line but that was basically it.
You see most modern cars tune based on a Lambda value not a calculated AFR value. Everyone knows that stoich is 14.7:1 for gasoline. What you may not know is Stoich for Ethanol is 9.6:1. What you also might not know is both of these values equal a Lambda value of 1.0. See where I'm going? If the ECUs only see a Lamda value then it's not going to know the difference between gasoline and E85. The key is getting about 30% larger injectors in place of your stockers so the ECU can supply the needed fuel to reach the lambda values its searching for. smile.gif Hince why my fuel trims are darn close to stock even though the injectors are 30% larger. smile.gif Make sense?
The OE ECU takes care of closed loop tuning all by itself! All I have to worry about is adding 30% more fuel in open loop and boosted conditions. Easy as pie! Why 30% more fuel? That is due to E85's lower energy content compared to gasoline. It takes about 30% more fuel to reach Ethanol's stoich mixture level. This is also why Flexfuel vehicles get worse MPG when running on E85.
The MAJOR upside to Ethanol is its superior detonation resistance. This is partly due to its 105 octane rating and the cooling effect of the Ethanol itself. smile.gif This means no need to retard ANY timing. In fact I'm advancing timing in my car under boost. smile.gif We all know what that means!
So in summary, this is what you need.
SMT-6 or similar fuel and timing controller
30-35% Larger primary injectors for Normally Aspirated tuning, plus a 2nd fuel rail for boosted conditions
at least a 190lph pump to supply the additional fuel flow needed for the larger injectors
A decent wideband gauge to monitor and tune
That's it!
Oh and 91 Octane is 3.90 and E85 is 2.60 near me so the lower E85 cost offsets the decreased fuel economy by a good margin.
09-12-2008, 03:09 PM
#9
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wow.. thats.... easy.. lol
a realy cool thing.. is that the upgrade from my stock injectors to the stage II injectors, is a 30% increase..
if i can get some friends to go in on HP tuners with me (can be used on up to 3 cars) should be able to do this within a couple months and see what happens.
and i know e85 runs cleaner, but even with the lower cost, the 30% more consumption will even the cost out in the end, you will just have the benefit of a cleaner engine, fuel system., and 105 octane.
a realy cool thing.. is that the upgrade from my stock injectors to the stage II injectors, is a 30% increase..
if i can get some friends to go in on HP tuners with me (can be used on up to 3 cars) should be able to do this within a couple months and see what happens.
and i know e85 runs cleaner, but even with the lower cost, the 30% more consumption will even the cost out in the end, you will just have the benefit of a cleaner engine, fuel system., and 105 octane.
09-12-2008, 03:44 PM
#10
Moderator
$4 per gallon gasoline = 30 miles
- $1 for ethenol = $3 per gallon
1 gallon of ethenol = 33% less effective or 19.999 miles per gallon
so 30 miles on ethenol = $3.99
What's the freakin' point?
the only change I see is that you've reduced your miles between fill ups.
- $1 for ethenol = $3 per gallon
1 gallon of ethenol = 33% less effective or 19.999 miles per gallon
so 30 miles on ethenol = $3.99
What's the freakin' point?
the only change I see is that you've reduced your miles between fill ups.