Couple Smt-6 Questions
07-20-2006, 10:16 AM
#11
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QUOTE (Supercow @ Jul 20 2006, 08:47 AM)
oh, btw, with the setup I'm talking about could/should I use a map sensor? and if so would that mean I could dump the maf?
No, you can't just use a MAP sensor... it won't work (unless you are going stand-alonie)
Even with the secondary rail setup, you are still using the MAF and MAP sensor is a suplementary thing just to be used to control the secondary injector fuel flow.
QUOTE (Supercow @ Jul 17 2006, 04:53 PM)
obviously you mean something better than those cheapo tools at autozone. could I just get your maps and modify them as needed(plan on going to a dyno to tune)? or is this fuel trim thing going to be different?
btw, what do you mean by fuel trims?
btw, what do you mean by fuel trims?
sorry for the delay, i've been meaning to come back to you on this...
basically, in simple terms...
Fuel Trim refers to feedback adjustments/corrections to the base fuel schedule. This is what the ECU does (trims fuel: add or subtract) to be able to reach a stoichiometric AFR value of 14.7. This is expressed in +/- % and it is done by controlling the injector flow.
There are two types: short term and long term
Short Term Fuel Trim refers to dynamic or instantaneous adjustments (i.e., during braking/accelerating).
Long Term Fuel Trim refers to much more gradual adjustments to the fuel calibration schedule than short-term trim adjustments. Long term adjustments compensate for vehicle differences and gradual changes that occur over time.
Now as denis had mentioned, a fuel trim value closer to 0% is gold. I believe that the ECU can compensate the trim up to +/- 25% anything over will give you a CEL.
Oh as for my maps... all i really have is for the secondary rail setup, i need to look for my old (440's on the stock rail only) maps.. i'll let you know
07-20-2006, 01:56 PM
#12
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cool, if you could find those maps it would be great! They might not be exact but that would be nice to start off with.
07-20-2006, 02:13 PM
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07-21-2006, 12:33 PM
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you txt file lies!!!
QUOTE
This is a MAP for a automatic 2000 Hyundai Elantra at 6psi on a T25 with 440cc injectors.
07-21-2006, 01:55 PM
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Fuel trims are also the reason why it's impossible, on the stock ECU and without any special devices, to adjust the fuel with a piggyback and have the adjusted A/F be kept this way for an extended period of time. The ECU will "learn" around your tuning and work all it can to get back to it's hardcoded fuel map. Basically it means that it'll alway try to be stoich, which is not *that* bad but can be an annoyance.
07-21-2006, 02:12 PM
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^^holy crap! where have you been?? welcome back
anyways what are you using then, is that why alot of people moved to the dual rail setup? I was waiting for airborne and his turbo ecu, but I just didn't want to wait any longer.
anyways what are you using then, is that why alot of people moved to the dual rail setup? I was waiting for airborne and his turbo ecu, but I just didn't want to wait any longer.
07-21-2006, 02:28 PM
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When you want extensive control over fuel, it's of course best to use a standalone. But we can still do some nifty stuff using the stock ECU and devices like the SMT6.
Well, I've been kinda busy lately, and I haven't got the time to play with my car much this summer, yet 02.gif I think I put like 300 miles on it since April...
One thing to mention: ECU's don't usually use the sensors when you're at WOT (ie, open-loop), meaning that at WOT you *could* use a piggyback to tune the A/F and it would work. Personally, that's not exactly what I've seen on my car (using an SAFC2), but experiences may differ. I found it pretty impossible to tune with just bigger injectors and only a piggyback.
Again, your experience may differ if you'll be using an FMU. I know of at least 2 Hyundai turbo setup (both are Accent, though) that use/used FMUs to tune the fuel, and they ran surpringsly well. However, both are using many "tricks" in order to make the car run good. The first that comes to mind is that in order to have a good idle speed, both guys had to use a cut broom stick (~3/4" round piece of wood) with a hole in the middle in order to restrict air flow in the idle ose. One of the guys actually used 2 FMU on his setup. You have to be creative if you want a setup like that wink1.gif
Right now, I'm testing a little box which main job is to force the ECU in open loop as soon as it detects boost (through a MAP sensor). In order to do so, it tricks different sensors. Relatively simple, all in all.
If it works well, I'll have nearly full control over fuel while boosting, while still retaining 100% OEM fueling off-boost, which is very nice; feeling of a stock car (because it's actually 95% stock when not on boost with a dual-rail setup) when not boosting, and full control à la standalone when boosting. You gotta like it wink1.gif
Well, I've been kinda busy lately, and I haven't got the time to play with my car much this summer, yet 02.gif I think I put like 300 miles on it since April...
One thing to mention: ECU's don't usually use the sensors when you're at WOT (ie, open-loop), meaning that at WOT you *could* use a piggyback to tune the A/F and it would work. Personally, that's not exactly what I've seen on my car (using an SAFC2), but experiences may differ. I found it pretty impossible to tune with just bigger injectors and only a piggyback.
Again, your experience may differ if you'll be using an FMU. I know of at least 2 Hyundai turbo setup (both are Accent, though) that use/used FMUs to tune the fuel, and they ran surpringsly well. However, both are using many "tricks" in order to make the car run good. The first that comes to mind is that in order to have a good idle speed, both guys had to use a cut broom stick (~3/4" round piece of wood) with a hole in the middle in order to restrict air flow in the idle ose. One of the guys actually used 2 FMU on his setup. You have to be creative if you want a setup like that wink1.gif
Right now, I'm testing a little box which main job is to force the ECU in open loop as soon as it detects boost (through a MAP sensor). In order to do so, it tricks different sensors. Relatively simple, all in all.
If it works well, I'll have nearly full control over fuel while boosting, while still retaining 100% OEM fueling off-boost, which is very nice; feeling of a stock car (because it's actually 95% stock when not on boost with a dual-rail setup) when not boosting, and full control à la standalone when boosting. You gotta like it wink1.gif
07-21-2006, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE (Agarwal @ Jul 21 2006, 03:28 PM)
Right now, I'm testing a little box which main job is to force the ECU in open loop as soon as it detects boost (through a MAP sensor). In order to do so, it tricks different sensors. Relatively simple, all in all.
If it works well, I'll have nearly full control over fuel while boosting, while still retaining 100% OEM fueling off-boost, which is very nice; feeling of a stock car (because it's actually 95% stock when not on boost with a dual-rail setup) when not boosting, and full control à la standalone when boosting. You gotta like it wink1.gif
If it works well, I'll have nearly full control over fuel while boosting, while still retaining 100% OEM fueling off-boost, which is very nice; feeling of a stock car (because it's actually 95% stock when not on boost with a dual-rail setup) when not boosting, and full control à la standalone when boosting. You gotta like it wink1.gif
Just to let you know that my "take over" box is working really well cool.gif