Boosting With Race Gas
03-21-2006, 07:07 PM
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Ok from what Ive learned, one can safely run 7psi (i know, its all relative) and possibly 8psi on stock internals at stock compression. Im wondering if its limited to this because of promotion of detonation by the high compression ratio or becuase the stock internals simply arent strong enough? Either way, I would like to know if and how much race gas (110 octane) would effect this.
If race gas would allow you to push more boost, is there anyway to find out how much more or would it pretty much guessing? If its just the internals holding it back, I dont assume race gas would change much though...
At any rate, I was just asking because I plan to run 7psi daily, and wondered about kicking that up a bit for at the track. Well, time for you guys to learn me cool.gif
If race gas would allow you to push more boost, is there anyway to find out how much more or would it pretty much guessing? If its just the internals holding it back, I dont assume race gas would change much though...
At any rate, I was just asking because I plan to run 7psi daily, and wondered about kicking that up a bit for at the track. Well, time for you guys to learn me cool.gif
03-21-2006, 07:51 PM
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Generally, about 2-2.5 octane you go up = 1 psi you can up it. Some people say less, but I don't put that much faith in it.
Ex. I run 19PSI on pump, 24PSI on race gas (110).
Ex. I run 19PSI on pump, 24PSI on race gas (110).
03-21-2006, 09:59 PM
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thanks for the info man!!
say I did what you did and increase it by ~5, would it be stressing the internals more or is it basically the same because of the added octane? obviously it would drastically reduce pre-detonation... but its gotta be a little harder on it? maybe Im just over worried; I just dont know how strong the stock internals are and I dont wanna f*ck anything up... haha
Do you think ~12psi on 110 octane with stock internals and compression would be fine for a beta 1 ham?
say I did what you did and increase it by ~5, would it be stressing the internals more or is it basically the same because of the added octane? obviously it would drastically reduce pre-detonation... but its gotta be a little harder on it? maybe Im just over worried; I just dont know how strong the stock internals are and I dont wanna f*ck anything up... haha
Do you think ~12psi on 110 octane with stock internals and compression would be fine for a beta 1 ham?
03-22-2006, 01:02 AM
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The more hp you gain (more boost) the more energy needs = more heat. Probably heat will be main problem, however it may be just matter of time. For example on one 1/4 run you may not have any probem (piston shouldn't get too hot) but after long run it may happen.
I would use EGT gauge to monitor it.
I would use EGT gauge to monitor it.
03-22-2006, 01:43 AM
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does this mean you fixed your problems? whats up?
Oh and stock internals and stock compressioncan definatly take more than 8 pounds, 18 is the highest ive heard of, and tim did 17, another member is at 16. but at numbers near 20 your tune ends up being real rich to prevent detonation. if you want to stay stock comp and stock internals you could be on the safe side at 15.
Oh and stock internals and stock compressioncan definatly take more than 8 pounds, 18 is the highest ive heard of, and tim did 17, another member is at 16. but at numbers near 20 your tune ends up being real rich to prevent detonation. if you want to stay stock comp and stock internals you could be on the safe side at 15.
03-22-2006, 10:57 AM
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You might want to read MAXIMUM BOOST and 4 STROKE PERFORMANCE TUNING. They both have sections on "mixing" your own gas.
To sum them up. Unless you've got a PHD and some serious test equipment, don't even think about it.
#1. Race gas is about $20 a gallon. With the money you'll spend on "race gas" you can afford to modify the engine the RIGHT way.
#2. You'll NEVER know what "mix" gas you just bought, unless you test it. So putting in 5 gallons of 110 octane might give you 100 octane this tank, but might only give you 95 Octane on the next tank. There are so many different chemicals that go into making gas the right octane (and that includes race gas), so you might get a Tolune heavy pump gas, then use tolune heavy race gas, and not get much octane increase one time, but get Tolune light pump gas, and get tolune light race gas, and not get much octane increase... and all the possible combinations with the 10-15 different chemical components that make up "gas" and "race gas"...they will ALL yeild unpredictable mixes....
Don't do it. It's not reliable, it's not cheap. And rebuilding your motor after sure ain't easy, or cheap.
Detonation is what kills the stock pistons. I SERIOUSLY doubt you'll EVER be able to melt one. You'll break one from excessive cylinder pressure before you melt one.
To sum them up. Unless you've got a PHD and some serious test equipment, don't even think about it.
#1. Race gas is about $20 a gallon. With the money you'll spend on "race gas" you can afford to modify the engine the RIGHT way.
#2. You'll NEVER know what "mix" gas you just bought, unless you test it. So putting in 5 gallons of 110 octane might give you 100 octane this tank, but might only give you 95 Octane on the next tank. There are so many different chemicals that go into making gas the right octane (and that includes race gas), so you might get a Tolune heavy pump gas, then use tolune heavy race gas, and not get much octane increase one time, but get Tolune light pump gas, and get tolune light race gas, and not get much octane increase... and all the possible combinations with the 10-15 different chemical components that make up "gas" and "race gas"...they will ALL yeild unpredictable mixes....
Don't do it. It's not reliable, it's not cheap. And rebuilding your motor after sure ain't easy, or cheap.
Detonation is what kills the stock pistons. I SERIOUSLY doubt you'll EVER be able to melt one. You'll break one from excessive cylinder pressure before you melt one.
03-22-2006, 12:13 PM
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I think he planned on running it near dry , and then going all race gas on track day, not trying to make a mixture for everyday use.
Race gas is $20 a gallon there Random? Ouch...
Race gas is $20 a gallon there Random? Ouch...
03-22-2006, 12:55 PM
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110 octane gas is $20 to $60 a gallon depending on blend/exact specs.
You can get 100 Octane for $5 a gallon.
Even if you run your tank to near empty...who's to say how empty "empty" is? Does that mean 1 gallon left? 2 Gallons? If you're only adding 5 gallons of 100 or 110 Octane, that makes a BIG difference.
Again, considering the costs, and the potential for damage, save your $$$ for low comp pistons.
You can get 100 Octane for $5 a gallon.
Even if you run your tank to near empty...who's to say how empty "empty" is? Does that mean 1 gallon left? 2 Gallons? If you're only adding 5 gallons of 100 or 110 Octane, that makes a BIG difference.
Again, considering the costs, and the potential for damage, save your $$$ for low comp pistons.
03-22-2006, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (alex01tib @ Mar 22 2006, 02:43 AM)
does this mean you fixed your problems? whats up?
Oh and stock internals and stock compressioncan definatly take more than 8 pounds, 18 is the highest ive heard of, and tim did 17, another member is at 16. but at numbers near 20 your tune ends up being real rich to prevent detonation. if you want to stay stock comp and stock internals you could be on the safe side at 15.
Oh and stock internals and stock compressioncan definatly take more than 8 pounds, 18 is the highest ive heard of, and tim did 17, another member is at 16. but at numbers near 20 your tune ends up being real rich to prevent detonation. if you want to stay stock comp and stock internals you could be on the safe side at 15.
Thanks for the info man, but unfortunately my problems arent solved yet. Should be fairly soon tho, I decided to hell with it and Im getting a reprogrammed ecu from airborne smile.gif
QUOTE (hamhead @ Mar 22 2006, 01:13 PM)
I think he planned on running it near dry , and then going all race gas on track day, not trying to make a mixture for everyday use.
Race gas is $20 a gallon there Random? Ouch...
Race gas is $20 a gallon there Random? Ouch...
You are 100% correct my man! and yea, thats some expensive shit...
QUOTE (Random @ Mar 22 2006, 01:55 PM)
110 octane gas is $20 to $60 a gallon depending on blend/exact specs.
You can get 100 Octane for $5 a gallon.
Even if you run your tank to near empty...who's to say how empty "empty" is? Does that mean 1 gallon left? 2 Gallons? If you're only adding 5 gallons of 100 or 110 Octane, that makes a BIG difference.
Again, considering the costs, and the potential for damage, save your $$$ for low comp pistons.
You can get 100 Octane for $5 a gallon.
Even if you run your tank to near empty...who's to say how empty "empty" is? Does that mean 1 gallon left? 2 Gallons? If you're only adding 5 gallons of 100 or 110 Octane, that makes a BIG difference.
Again, considering the costs, and the potential for damage, save your $$$ for low comp pistons.
Well if/when i do this, I will be playing it as safe as I can. Obviously that doesnt mean theres a 100% guarentee or anything... Also, I know a guy that mixes his own gas, he's actually hoping for 114 octane, but hes going to get it tested to find out. And it is no where close to $20 a gallon here.... its actually not very expensive. The whole 3 times I use it this year will not amount to the cost of low comp pistons, which would be a waste of money for me in the first place since I do not need any more power on the street than my measely 7 psi. Thanks for the info tho!!