Alpine SuperCharger 12-15psi?
08-11-2002, 06:57 PM
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Alpine SuperCharger 12-15psi?
Out of curiosity what would have to be done/upgraded on the 1st gen tibs to get an Alpine SuperCharger to run between 12-15psi or possibly 21psi of boost?
08-12-2002, 12:51 AM
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The roots-type Eaton M62 blower that Alpine uses will never sustain that kind of boost and live through it. Roots blowers are VERY bad about heat, and running one of these chargers above the manufacturer's rating is a very bad idea.
Not only that, but because of their abysmal heat performance, you'd end up making no more power anyway.
Now if you had a centrifugal-type supercharger, that's a different story. Unfortunately, nobody makes a centrifugal supercharger kit for any Hyundai, so that's a moot point.
Not only that, but because of their abysmal heat performance, you'd end up making no more power anyway.
Now if you had a centrifugal-type supercharger, that's a different story. Unfortunately, nobody makes a centrifugal supercharger kit for any Hyundai, so that's a moot point.
08-12-2002, 03:46 AM
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It's the exact same blower core that is used on the USDM 1999-2000 Civic Si, and on Rimmer Engineering's old Tiburon/Elantra supercharger kit.
But let's just play devils advocate: if it really is an M45, 10psi on a 2.0L motor is already above it's thermal design range. The M-designator tells you the cubic foot rating on the charger. An M45 is a 45 cubic foot positive displacement blower, an M62 is a larger 62 cubic foot version.
An M45 would be the right size for a 1.5L - 1.6L motor, as the M45 is used on Honda Civic DX and EX supercharger kits (non-VTEC or relatively low RPM points). Even in those cases, the M45 is usually only spun to 6-8psi...
But let's just play devils advocate: if it really is an M45, 10psi on a 2.0L motor is already above it's thermal design range. The M-designator tells you the cubic foot rating on the charger. An M45 is a 45 cubic foot positive displacement blower, an M62 is a larger 62 cubic foot version.
An M45 would be the right size for a 1.5L - 1.6L motor, as the M45 is used on Honda Civic DX and EX supercharger kits (non-VTEC or relatively low RPM points). Even in those cases, the M45 is usually only spun to 6-8psi...
08-16-2002, 03:52 AM
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Maurice...
Red's on the right track, but to set the record staight, none of Eatons superchargers are designed to take more than about 10psi of boost (nor is any "roots type" blower for that matter)! Anything over that, and they become very, very, very in-efficient!
The Alpine kits have been designed not to exceed the built-in parameters of the factory timing and fuel maps, and why they come with approximately only 4psi of boost. Even with our turbo kit, which has 10psi of boost (but also includes the decompression plate, helping to offset the additional boost), is still within the factory parameters of the timing and fuel. If you are wanting more than 10psi of boost, you will have to "modify" a turbo kit (ours, or anyone else's), or even go to a "centrifugal" supercharger, which would have to include serious modification of the fuel and timing, not to mention the other "weak links" in the power train.
Red's on the right track, but to set the record staight, none of Eatons superchargers are designed to take more than about 10psi of boost (nor is any "roots type" blower for that matter)! Anything over that, and they become very, very, very in-efficient!
The Alpine kits have been designed not to exceed the built-in parameters of the factory timing and fuel maps, and why they come with approximately only 4psi of boost. Even with our turbo kit, which has 10psi of boost (but also includes the decompression plate, helping to offset the additional boost), is still within the factory parameters of the timing and fuel. If you are wanting more than 10psi of boost, you will have to "modify" a turbo kit (ours, or anyone else's), or even go to a "centrifugal" supercharger, which would have to include serious modification of the fuel and timing, not to mention the other "weak links" in the power train.
08-16-2002, 05:57 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to the spec sheets Alpine sent me, the Alpine SuperCharger kit is supposed to be producing 213hp and 184FT/LBS (Torque)@6000rpm.
But is it really possible with only 4psi of boost?
But is it really possible with only 4psi of boost?
08-16-2002, 06:17 AM
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Yeah, as I recall, Alpine was claiming either eight or ten pounds of positive manifold pressure on the supercharger kit. That, and Rimmer used the same Eaton M62 core at 10psi to build around a rated 190-something horsepower on their older supercharger setup.
I only know a single person who has the Rimmer Engineering M62 Tiburon blower still; he hangs out here occasionally. Maybe Chris can help us out with a boost reading on that puppy... Chris?
I only know a single person who has the Rimmer Engineering M62 Tiburon blower still; he hangs out here occasionally. Maybe Chris can help us out with a boost reading on that puppy... Chris?
08-16-2002, 06:20 AM
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Vehicle: 2008 Toyota Prius 2006 Suzuki SV650S
those figures are "estimated" engine HP figures obtained from a wheel dyno run, not Wheel HP figures. They are also obtained using 96 Octane gas, not the 91 octane rat piss we get in the USA.
Their "base" numbers are also 159 HP and 159 Ft. Lbs. So I would simple do the math between their before and after numbers, subtract 15% for drivetrain losses, then add those numbers to your stock figures, and that should give you an idea of gains you should actually see, assuming you run on 96 octane.
I've mentioned to Ballrub/Alpine the problems with their method of HP/Torque. Ballrub said he will be publishing US Spec before/after dynos once they get the program rolling in the USA. Those numbers will be WHEEL Hp numbers not estimates of Engine HP. And they will be done on US spec cars, using US spec gas.
Their "base" numbers are also 159 HP and 159 Ft. Lbs. So I would simple do the math between their before and after numbers, subtract 15% for drivetrain losses, then add those numbers to your stock figures, and that should give you an idea of gains you should actually see, assuming you run on 96 octane.
I've mentioned to Ballrub/Alpine the problems with their method of HP/Torque. Ballrub said he will be publishing US Spec before/after dynos once they get the program rolling in the USA. Those numbers will be WHEEL Hp numbers not estimates of Engine HP. And they will be done on US spec cars, using US spec gas.