An Alpine Development Turbo Checklist
08-15-2001, 01:23 PM
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An Alpine Development Turbo Checklist
I am hoping maybe you can help. I have been on the forums reading for many hours and hours. I have talked with Random a few times as well. I am trying to learn as much as humanly possible!!! I will be getting an Alpine Turbo Kit as soon as I can get in touch with them. This is my problem. I don't know where to start. I'm not even sure what comes with the kit. Random says that for the 1900 dollar price that they quoted me doesn't come with the pipes or hoses???? Yet the picture on their website shows all the pipes or hoses along with the kit. Could somebody PLEASE make a list of things to buy? This is the list that I have gathered
1. Alpine Turbo Kit
2. Turbo Timer
3. Thermotec to insulate the turbines and pipes
4. Aluminum tubing (if Random is correct)
5. A fuel line for the fifth injector (again if Random is correct) Not doubting his wealth of knowledge by the way...just thought that they would now give you that stuff instead of giving you the kit and installation for the $1900 like they did for him.
6. Boost gauge
7. Blow off valve
8. Air fuel meter
9. Full exhaust
10. ?better oil, like a good synthetic??
11. (Later time) More gauges to help watch everything
I want to do the install right. I want to get all that I need to maintain my kit and fit it properly the first time around. I don't want to be like all those broke-down every other weekend Hondas. In this list could you state what should be bought at time of purchase and what could be done at later times. I know that I am not the only person to be this confused. By the way I drive a 1998 Tiburon 2.0 manual with pacesetter 2 1/4 cat back system. Several other mods but not to engine. Also my car is American specs. I'm not sure if that matters in the least.
PS this is not a wish list, just what it takes to kick some Honda A** consistently! Thanks for everyone's patients and help. HondaEater aka...Eric PSS. Does anyone know how to get in touch with Alpine? I have a phonenumber, but how many hours are we behind in Florida?
1. Alpine Turbo Kit
2. Turbo Timer
3. Thermotec to insulate the turbines and pipes
4. Aluminum tubing (if Random is correct)
5. A fuel line for the fifth injector (again if Random is correct) Not doubting his wealth of knowledge by the way...just thought that they would now give you that stuff instead of giving you the kit and installation for the $1900 like they did for him.
6. Boost gauge
7. Blow off valve
8. Air fuel meter
9. Full exhaust
10. ?better oil, like a good synthetic??
11. (Later time) More gauges to help watch everything
I want to do the install right. I want to get all that I need to maintain my kit and fit it properly the first time around. I don't want to be like all those broke-down every other weekend Hondas. In this list could you state what should be bought at time of purchase and what could be done at later times. I know that I am not the only person to be this confused. By the way I drive a 1998 Tiburon 2.0 manual with pacesetter 2 1/4 cat back system. Several other mods but not to engine. Also my car is American specs. I'm not sure if that matters in the least.
PS this is not a wish list, just what it takes to kick some Honda A** consistently! Thanks for everyone's patients and help. HondaEater aka...Eric PSS. Does anyone know how to get in touch with Alpine? I have a phonenumber, but how many hours are we behind in Florida?
08-15-2001, 02:00 PM
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I'm just adding to my last message. Just to clear up any future questions. I plan to stay at 10 pounds of boost. So I don't think I need a boost regulator. And I believe that the intercooler Alpine suplies will be alright for me. Thanks HondaEater 
08-15-2001, 02:12 PM
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Hey Eric, welcome to the board!! I ordered the Alpine turbo around the mid of last month. I unfortunately just used email to contact him but it usually takes at least 24 hours for Gavin to reply. They're either 5 or 6 hours ahead of Florida. Anyhow I hope you have alot patience. Last I wrote to him was 3 days about the status of my order...he said it had just that day been all packed up and ready for his shipping company to pick it up. He has yet to send me the airbill so I know when it'll be at the airport.
What I'm planning on doing first is getting a good boost controller, AF meter, boost gauge, and blow-off valve. The controller will be from TurboXS (www.turboxs.com) until I have the cash for an Apex AVC-R...the XS worked good on my 98 Eclipse. Soon after will be 3" full back exhaust with a DragunFire muffler. Some people say 2.5" is better but I want to leave my options open down the road.
Mario on this board has the Thermotec heat wrap and says it helps alot with preventing excessive heat soak. The turbo timer is not an immediate necessity for me until I get everything mint. I'd probably do the "poor man's" timer and let it idle for a minute before turning off the car. Synthetic oil..I've used Mobil 1 since I bought the car new. I've heard of problems switching to synthetic after running regular for a long time so I'd check that out.
As for the piping..one of my numerous questions to Gavin was is it a complete kit. He said it includes everything you need to install without any additional parts on a US engine. But..from Random and Yam's half-arse installs I can only hope.
Hope that helps a little. The "Ecyclopedia de la Random" has further information wink.gif
What I'm planning on doing first is getting a good boost controller, AF meter, boost gauge, and blow-off valve. The controller will be from TurboXS (www.turboxs.com) until I have the cash for an Apex AVC-R...the XS worked good on my 98 Eclipse. Soon after will be 3" full back exhaust with a DragunFire muffler. Some people say 2.5" is better but I want to leave my options open down the road.
Mario on this board has the Thermotec heat wrap and says it helps alot with preventing excessive heat soak. The turbo timer is not an immediate necessity for me until I get everything mint. I'd probably do the "poor man's" timer and let it idle for a minute before turning off the car. Synthetic oil..I've used Mobil 1 since I bought the car new. I've heard of problems switching to synthetic after running regular for a long time so I'd check that out.
As for the piping..one of my numerous questions to Gavin was is it a complete kit. He said it includes everything you need to install without any additional parts on a US engine. But..from Random and Yam's half-arse installs I can only hope.
Hope that helps a little. The "Ecyclopedia de la Random" has further information wink.gif
08-15-2001, 05:56 PM
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Eric-
The reason I suggested some of the items in the e-mail to you, is that those items were "upgrades" to what Alpine used on my kit/install. Mario is the only other person I know who has recieved the kit and performed the install, so I'm sure he will have some input.
I do not reccomend a Turbo timer. If you read either of the 2 books I reccomended, they do not advocate the use of a turbo timer type device. If you want to be extra careful, let the car idle for 30 seconds before shutting it down, or just make sure your last 500 yards are so are not under boost, and you should be fine. I would highly reccomend a thick weight syntheic oil for summer/warm climates, and only as thin as 10W40 in winter. Also...do not run the engine under boost untill the temp needle has climbed into the NORMAL zone, even in summer. Cold oil pressure at HIGH RPM regullarly goes over 100 PSI, which could be enough to push oil past seals in the turbo.
I also do NOT reccomend a normal Blow off Valve. Get a Re-circulating BOV. If your BOV vents outside, your MAF still reads "JESUS" ammounts of air going in the engine, when in fact the BOV is venting it. If you get the recirculating type...that temporary "rich" condition can be avoided. TurboXS makes such a BOV.
The Thermo wraping is reccomended. for both the full exhaust, turbo, and intercooler plumbing. (keeps the hot side hot, and the cool side cool!)
There are some modifications to the radiator fans that need to be done as well, so I am reccomending thin SPAL fans in favor of the Stock units...but at $125 to $175 each, they are not cheap. In the short term "modification" of the stock fans will work, but is really ugly. (SPAL has not gotten back to me as to WHICH model fan will fit in place of the stock units, when they do...I will let everyone know).
I am taking a lot of photos this weekend, and I will post them up with FULL DETAILS as to alot of this, I'm sure it will answer a lot of questions...and raise some new ones...
The reason I suggested some of the items in the e-mail to you, is that those items were "upgrades" to what Alpine used on my kit/install. Mario is the only other person I know who has recieved the kit and performed the install, so I'm sure he will have some input.
I do not reccomend a Turbo timer. If you read either of the 2 books I reccomended, they do not advocate the use of a turbo timer type device. If you want to be extra careful, let the car idle for 30 seconds before shutting it down, or just make sure your last 500 yards are so are not under boost, and you should be fine. I would highly reccomend a thick weight syntheic oil for summer/warm climates, and only as thin as 10W40 in winter. Also...do not run the engine under boost untill the temp needle has climbed into the NORMAL zone, even in summer. Cold oil pressure at HIGH RPM regullarly goes over 100 PSI, which could be enough to push oil past seals in the turbo.
I also do NOT reccomend a normal Blow off Valve. Get a Re-circulating BOV. If your BOV vents outside, your MAF still reads "JESUS" ammounts of air going in the engine, when in fact the BOV is venting it. If you get the recirculating type...that temporary "rich" condition can be avoided. TurboXS makes such a BOV.
The Thermo wraping is reccomended. for both the full exhaust, turbo, and intercooler plumbing. (keeps the hot side hot, and the cool side cool!)
There are some modifications to the radiator fans that need to be done as well, so I am reccomending thin SPAL fans in favor of the Stock units...but at $125 to $175 each, they are not cheap. In the short term "modification" of the stock fans will work, but is really ugly. (SPAL has not gotten back to me as to WHICH model fan will fit in place of the stock units, when they do...I will let everyone know).
I am taking a lot of photos this weekend, and I will post them up with FULL DETAILS as to alot of this, I'm sure it will answer a lot of questions...and raise some new ones...
08-16-2001, 03:52 AM
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Thanks all who have replied! I spoke with Alpine and they stated that in addition to all, I need a replacement cylinder head gasket. #12 on the list. Many of you have now told me that a blow off valve in not necessary due to a built in waste gate. As for the Turbo timer I will take your advice over my Local speed shop. Although everyone else lives by getting one. Could you suggest those book titles again I must have missed them in your email. Would anyone suggest any particular gauges to get? Thanks HondaEater.
08-16-2001, 05:07 AM
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Book Post http://www.teamsr.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.c...c&f=15&t=000093
Turbo timers are a gadget...people love gadgets. Why do most "rice" cars have a moster 72" tach even when they have one installed in the dash from the factory? Because someone reccomened it! Seek multipe sources for reccomendations, then make your own decisions.
The Alpine Turbo is oil lubicated, but water cooled. Water cooling virtually eliminates the need for turbo timer type devices. If the turbo was an Oil only unit, then a turbo timer would be a good idea (along with an oil cooler!)
Turbo timers are a gadget...people love gadgets. Why do most "rice" cars have a moster 72" tach even when they have one installed in the dash from the factory? Because someone reccomened it! Seek multipe sources for reccomendations, then make your own decisions.
The Alpine Turbo is oil lubicated, but water cooled. Water cooling virtually eliminates the need for turbo timer type devices. If the turbo was an Oil only unit, then a turbo timer would be a good idea (along with an oil cooler!)
08-16-2001, 06:43 AM
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My kit is a bit different from Randoms since mine is the MAP system and not the MAF one. I paid 2500+ for the kit so maybe this is the reason of the differences. Ok, here are my views after long hours of collecting info and frying my and other brains, even Randoms.
1. My kit did bring all the parts necessary(tubes, hoses, injector, fuel box, intercooler, spacer (cr 9) etc.)
2.The kit was made for gen 1 Tibby and mine is a 2001 so some minor tubing mods had to be made to make it fit (nothing mayor).
3. My mayor problem!!!!!! was using the original intake box. The kit has a rubber hose (90 degree)out of the stock intake box and resonator that was too soft, under boost, the hose would collapse inwards and cut the air flow loosing all the boost. Solution? Take it off and use a CAI type intake to the lower front of the car. My case, to the front of air intake of Zefiro Kit. Changed the radiator fan to make it as straight as possible. Used regular muffler tube.
4. Thermotech is a must for the price. Do it all, intake, exhaust and turbo. This reduced the engine room temp and helped a lot.
5. A boost gauge or a blow off (safety type) is mandatory, if the wastegate goes wrong you can blow your engine.
6.a/f gauge is mandatory to tune. They provide a regulator that allows you to increase or decrease fuel pressure so you can play a bit with fuel delivery (to certain parameters). I bought an exhaust temp gauge which serves you to avoid lean situations over 1400 degrees but not for tunning so I would get the a/f if I had to make the decision now.
7.My blow off is before the throttle body and my MAP sensor so the ECU does not dectect a thing. I dump the intake compressed air to the atmosphere and reduce the back pressure to the compressor of the turbo letting it to continue rotating freely so that when I need boost the turbo is ready to deliver inmediately. Back pressure is not the best for your turbo either. Also the peak pressure when the throtle is closed tends to loosen the intake piping generating leaks or disconnection all the way.
8. Turbo timer is not mandatory but is a nice protection.
9. Other changes. My 5th injector was not the size required for the HP wanted so I changed it I am using an old RX7 turbo injector rated at about 550 cc/min at 40psi. The fuel pump, once I changed the injector was not supplying the fuel required at the pressure required. Solution a high pressure, high flow Walbro pump and by adjusting the pressure I have been able to run 15psi. I do not do it always, just to kick ass.
10. The intercooler will work fine, I changed it because I bought the Zefiro kit and wanted a better intercooler to increase boost and got a Spearco (Turbonetics) one that fits exactly on the front air intake of the kit. 3X6X24inches.
FORGOT THE MOST IMPORTANT PART, A HEAVY DUTY CLUTCH, MINE LASTED 3000 KMS!!!!!
[ August 16, 2001: Message edited by: Mario ]
1. My kit did bring all the parts necessary(tubes, hoses, injector, fuel box, intercooler, spacer (cr 9) etc.)
2.The kit was made for gen 1 Tibby and mine is a 2001 so some minor tubing mods had to be made to make it fit (nothing mayor).
3. My mayor problem!!!!!! was using the original intake box. The kit has a rubber hose (90 degree)out of the stock intake box and resonator that was too soft, under boost, the hose would collapse inwards and cut the air flow loosing all the boost. Solution? Take it off and use a CAI type intake to the lower front of the car. My case, to the front of air intake of Zefiro Kit. Changed the radiator fan to make it as straight as possible. Used regular muffler tube.
4. Thermotech is a must for the price. Do it all, intake, exhaust and turbo. This reduced the engine room temp and helped a lot.
5. A boost gauge or a blow off (safety type) is mandatory, if the wastegate goes wrong you can blow your engine.
6.a/f gauge is mandatory to tune. They provide a regulator that allows you to increase or decrease fuel pressure so you can play a bit with fuel delivery (to certain parameters). I bought an exhaust temp gauge which serves you to avoid lean situations over 1400 degrees but not for tunning so I would get the a/f if I had to make the decision now.
7.My blow off is before the throttle body and my MAP sensor so the ECU does not dectect a thing. I dump the intake compressed air to the atmosphere and reduce the back pressure to the compressor of the turbo letting it to continue rotating freely so that when I need boost the turbo is ready to deliver inmediately. Back pressure is not the best for your turbo either. Also the peak pressure when the throtle is closed tends to loosen the intake piping generating leaks or disconnection all the way.
8. Turbo timer is not mandatory but is a nice protection.
9. Other changes. My 5th injector was not the size required for the HP wanted so I changed it I am using an old RX7 turbo injector rated at about 550 cc/min at 40psi. The fuel pump, once I changed the injector was not supplying the fuel required at the pressure required. Solution a high pressure, high flow Walbro pump and by adjusting the pressure I have been able to run 15psi. I do not do it always, just to kick ass.
10. The intercooler will work fine, I changed it because I bought the Zefiro kit and wanted a better intercooler to increase boost and got a Spearco (Turbonetics) one that fits exactly on the front air intake of the kit. 3X6X24inches.
FORGOT THE MOST IMPORTANT PART, A HEAVY DUTY CLUTCH, MINE LASTED 3000 KMS!!!!!
[ August 16, 2001: Message edited by: Mario ]
08-16-2001, 02:41 PM
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I have heard MHP makes a cold air intake and Clutch master makes a stage three carbon Kevlar clutch. Although I will ride mine till it goes! Will a cold air fit or will I have to mod one? Thanks to all who have replied!!!! tongue.gif smile.gif HondaEater
08-17-2001, 03:17 PM
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I havn't heard of SPAL but FAL (Flex-a-Lite) Makes performance fans for imports and there application chart shows they make fans for 1.8l tibbs. I wrote them on if these fans were the performance fans they make for hondas and if they made them for the 2.0. Should get a reply soon - I hope. smile.gif