This is an 18+ section that may contain language, images, and video not suitable for work, marriages, children, or anyone opposed to graphic content. Religion Topic, Long 1st Post
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Joined: May 2004
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Alright. I know probably a few people were pissed about one or more of my posts. Sorry I really did not mean to offend. Now with that out of the way. I have taken some time to compile a paragraph or two on each religion I could find. If I missed one please let me know. After reading through this rather long first post I would love to hear what your religion of choice is and some thoughts or feelings you have about it. Please guys/gals I want to keep this clean and simply a place to share our thoughts and information. NOT to fight. Please make sure to read all of this first (even tho it is rather long) just so you get a general feel for where each persons thoughts are coming from.
It may seem that there is more information on perticular religions. This was NOT intensional. I simply have put the information that I had readily available.
I have read all of this myself and then some. I enjoy this topic for the merrits that each person brings to the "table". As I am sure you can tell I do know a decent amount on quite a few religions. However I must admit that a few of the ones listed below I have personally never heard mentioned before.
Once a few people have read this and posted up their religion and thoughts on that said religion I will be posting mine up. So no worries laugh.gif . Just to resay what I did earlier please keep this clean and also try not to blatently put down someone elses thoughts or beliefs. We are all adults here and lets act that way B) .
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Christianity
Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ as well as the teaching of the various churches within Christianity.
201 AD
The first specific Christian church building erected in Syria.
1456 AD
The Gutenberg Bible is Printed
1508 AD
Martin Luther Writes and Publicises his 95 Theses. This is the beginning of the foundation of the Lutheran church.
1533 AD
King Henry VIII breaks with the Catholic Church and founds the Anglican Church.
1535 AD
John Calvin writes, The Institutes of the Christian Religion. Marks the beginnings of Calvinist Churches.
1609 AD
The Baptist Church is founded.
1611 AD
First appearance of the King James Bible, or Authorised Version, an official translation of the Bible into English.
1827 AD
Joseph Smith founds the Mormon Church
1914 AD
William Durham founds the Assemblies of God, which eventually becomes the largest Pentecostal Denomination in the world.
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Judaism
It is sometimes referred to as the “parent faith” of Christianity. Christianity and Judaism both recognize the Old Testament as Holy Scripture.
450 BC
Torah (Pentateuch – First division of the Jewish Scriptures) begins to gain recognition as Scriptures.
90-150 AD
Writings (third and last division of the Jewish Scriptures) is discussed and accepted as sacred scripture)
400 AD
Jewish Palestinian Talmud is Edited.
1200 AD
The Zohar (a Jewish kabalistic book) is written
1567/1571 AD
Publication of the Shulhan Aruk (code of Jewish law by Joseph Caro)
1900-1910 AD
Founding of the Modern Jewish Orthodox movement
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Jainism
Jainism believes that the universe and all its substance or entities are eternal. Jains believe that all living things (animals and plants) have souls and are of equal value.
1500 BC (estimated)
Rishabhadeva, 1st Thirthankara (Prophet of Jainism). The founder of Jainism.
87 AD
Pushpadanta starts to write the Shatkhandagam
156 AD
Bhutbali completes the writing of the Shatkhandagam.
Bhadrabahu, the last man who was the leader of the undivided Jainist.
First Century AD (approximately)
The lifetime of Kundakunda, the celebrated author of the four influential Jainist books Samaya Sara (Treatise of the True Self), Pravachana Sara (Treatise of Lectures), Niyama Sara (Treatise on Pure Rules), Panchastikaya Sara (Treatise on Five Universal Components) and Ashta Pahuda (Eight Steps).
1451 AD
Lonkashah founded the Dhundhia Order of Jainism.
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Sikhism
It is recognised as the youngest of world religions. Among it’s many teachings Sikhism promotes the unity of God, universal love, equality and brotherhood of man, strict moral conduct and the rejection of the caste system, idol worship, superstitious belief and inferiority of women.
1469 AD
Birth of Guru Nanak (founder of Sikhism).
1563 AD
Guru Arjan Dev (5th Guru) born.
He compiled the First Sikh scripture.
1708 AD
Guru Gobind Singh dies after conferring Guruship to the Guru Granth Sahib (scripture).
2004 AD
400th commemoration year of the Sikh scripture (Adi Granth), first installed in Harmandar Sahib in 1604 by the Fifth Guru.
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Islam
610 AD
Muhammad receives the first revelation of the Qur’an.
622 AD
Hijra. The move of Muhammad and his early community to Medina. The first year of the Muslim Calendar.
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Hinduism
Hindus themselves use various terms such as sanatana-dharma (loosely translated as “eternal religion”) to describe their faith; the word “Hindu” is originally a geographic designation (those who live east of the Indus River) and is not found in any Hindu scriptures.
Hinduism has no single founder. While Hinduism may be a collection of faiths, one basic tenet of Hinduism is a belief in the difference between spirit (eternal) and matter (temporary).
2300-200 BC
Composition of the Rig-veda, Yajur-veda, Sma-veda, Atharva-veda, and the Upanisads.
400 BC – 400 AD
Composition of the Mahabharata
200 BC – 300 AD
Composition of the Dharma-sastras, laws of Manu, Ramayana, and Bhagavad-gita
300-1700 AD
Composition of the Puranas and early Tantras
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Buddhism
Buddhism developed from Hinduism, and while there are some fundamental differences between the two there are also some core beliefs which they both share.
486 AD
The first Buddhist Council
1391 AD
Birth of Gendeun Drubpa, later identified as the fist Dalai Lama
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Baha’i
It is a monotheistic faith that recognizes the validity of all the world’s great religions. The religion was founded approximately 160 years ago, making it the world’s youngest monotheistic faith.
1817 AD
Birth Bahá’u’lláh.
1844 AD
Declaration of the Báb
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Agnosticism
An agnostic is someone who doubts the existence of any God or Gods. It is someone who thinks that it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of any spirit or God(s). An agnostic has reserved judgement on this matter and believes that there is no sufficient evidence to support or deny such beings. Some agnostics believe that it is impossible for humans to every know.
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Atheism
Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of a God or Gods. Atheism can also be seen as having two polar distinctions – “weak atheism” and “strong atheism”. Weak atheism describes someone who is simply sceptical and holds a disbelief in God. A strong atheist can be qualified as someone who holds an explicit belief that there is no God or Gods.
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FreeThinkers
A freethinker is one someone who thinks freely and is prepared to consider any possibility. A freethinker believes in determining which ideas are right or wrong through reason according to a consistent set of rules.
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Secularism
The word secular means “of this world” in Latin and it is the opposite of religious. Secularism is a philosophy which forms its ethics without reference to religious dogmas and which believes in the promotion of the development of human art and science.
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Rationalism
Rationalist believe that the source of knowledge is reason and logic. Rationalists believe in a naturalistic alternative to the appeals of religious accounts of human nature and conduct. Rationalist belive that significant knowledge of the world can best be achieved by reason alone.
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PostModernism
Modernism is defined by the idea that humans and society can be perfected through the proper use of science, reason and democratic values. Postmodernism rejects this premise and believes that science and reason are not tools which transcend culture or politics. Postmodernist believe that science and reason are tools which are used by people to exercise political and cultural domination over other groups.
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Confucianism
Confucianism was established over 2,500 years ago. It is still alive today and represents a very diverse mix of interpretation which is deeply linked to centuries of Chinese Historical development.
Confucius (or, K’ung Fu-tse, meaning “Master K’ung”) the founder of Confucianism, was born in 551 B.C.E. He was an official of the state of Lu (now known as Shangtung). He eventually left his government position to pursue the development of his philosophy further.
His primary interest was in politics and ethics rather than religion. He preached good behaviour and harmonious social interaction which was underpinned by personal moral development and adherence to proper action.
He has been called one of the most influential thinkers in human history.
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Paganism/Neo-Peganism
The umbrella term “neo-paganism” is a relatively new word to describe religions or belief systems that incorporate gods/goddesses, symbols, ritual and other aspects of an ancient religion. Many adherents to this movement prefer to be referred to simply as pagans because they find the term neo-pagan derogatory. Some of the most popular pagan, or neo-pagan movements are:
• Asatru
• Druidic
• Wiccans
The cycles of the sun and moon were integral to most pagan religions. The cycles of the year hold importance for all pagan religions, seasonal and nature observance form a very important part of the neo-pagan/pagan movement. Among the celebrations or observances that most members of this community observe are:
• The Winter Solstice (the shortest day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere). The emphasis is on renewal and rebirth out of darkness.
• Imbolc (a “cross-quarter holiday”). This is also known by some pagans/neo-pagans a Brigid. It falls between the winter solstice and the spring equinox. A celebration of the increasing light.
• The Spring Equinox. One of the two points of the year where the day and night are in balance. The celebration of the awakening of plants and animals and fertility are integral to this observance.
• Beltane. (a “cross-quarter holiday”). The midpoint between spring and summer. The time of the Mother Earth flowering. The occasion for the Maypole dance.
• The Summer Solstice. The longest day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere. A time to make commitments to loved ones and to cultivate healthy self-love.
• Lammas (a “cross-quarter holiday”). The midpoint between summer and autumn. A time to honour mother earth.
• The Fall Equinox. Regarded as the most powerful night of the year.
• Samhain (Hallowmas). Marks the neo-pagan new year.
Actual dates can vary slightly from year to year for some of these observances.
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Asatru
Asatru is also known as Odinism and is an ancient Norse religion. Asatru (from the Icelandic language meaning “true to Asa”), believes that each person is dependant on others and that it is only through working together that true harmony can be achieved. It is a religion or belief system that believes in contribution by the individual to the greater good.
The Gods (or Asa) are known as the Aesir and the Vanir. The Aesir are primarily warrior gods and are generally speaking the “higher gods”; while the Vanir are largely fertility gods. Asatru believe that there are “nine worlds” held together and reached by the yggdrassil (world tree). These worlds are the realms of the Gods, humans, light elves, dark elves, dwarves, giants and others.
Asatru believe in Nine Nobel Virtues:
• Courage
• Truth
• Honor
• Fidelity
• Discipline
• Hospitality
• Industriousness
• Self-Reliance
• Perseverance
Integral to the religion are a large and vast array of myths and legends which incorporate all beings. There are many rituals and forms of magic in Asatru. There are six major festivals in Asatru:
• Yule (Mother Night). This begins on the 20th December at sunset.
• The Charming of the Plow (February 1st)
• Eostre (the Spring Equinox)
• Valpurgis (the beginning of Summer)
• Midsummer (21st June)
• Loaf-Feast. A Harvest Festival on the 1st of August
• Winter Nights (around the Autumnal Equinox)
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Druids
Druids were ancient priest in a nature-based religion indigenous to Celtic Britain and other European regions. The actual term Druid means “oak knowledge”.
Documented evidence (mostly from the Romans) of the activities of this group go back to the third century B.C.E. Julius Ceasar noted that the Druids in Gaul formed a federation that crossed tribal boundaries (it seems that this same system existed in Britain). The Druids met annually and had great influence over political and social matters for their areas. The Druids were well respected and revered members of their communities.
The actual term Druid, does not refer to a cleric or religious person. The actual term refers to an elite class of respected Celtic officiates who were part of a powerful network which was based on common practice and outlook. It has been discovered that Druids performed the same tasks for their communities that a modern day scholar, judge, teacher or clergy member still performs today. The Druids also took part in divination and nature focused worship.
There is not definitive Druidic text. The Druidic culture was suppressed by ruling nations and lead to a necessity to keep the practices alive through myths, historical heroic stories and songs. The Druid practices of today still use mythology and heroic stories in their practice.
Some of the basic beliefs of the modern-day Druid are:
• A belief in a multiplicity of Gods and Goddesses.
• The requirement of respect and love for Nature
• A love for humanity and a belief that it is important to help fellow human beings.
• An importance is placed on celebrating the solar, lunar and other life cycles present in nature.
Historical Druid worship practices seem to have included a wide variety of nature gods. Services took place near lakes and rivers and in tree groves. Oaks and mistletoe are regarded as sacred plants.
In modern times, Druids can be varied and diverse in their beliefs and practices. There are 8 major Druidic festivals and observances, 4 correspond to the solar cycle and 4 correspond to the lunar cycle. The festivals mark the seasonal equinoxes and traditional harvest/planting times. The most well know Druidic celebration takes place at Stonehenge during the summer solstice.
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Wicca
Wicca, or witchcraft, is another earth religion. It is a religion which honours many Gods and Goddesses and which is mindful of the natural cycles in the world. There is not particular series or precepts to which a Wicca practitioner must adhere. In addition to the holidays outlined in the pagan/neo-pagan section, Wiccans also observe the Full Moon (there are 13 in the current calendar year).
There is no sacred text for the Wiccan follower, however, they do all tend to follow what is known as the “Wiccan Rede”, which states “An Ye harm None, Do what thou wilt”. Harm is defined as anything which works against an individuals free will, takes away from another, or harms an individual mentally, physically or spriturally.
In addition to the “Wiccan Rede”, Wiccans ethical duties are defined in the Law of Three. Simply put, the Law of Three states that the actions and even the thoughts of an individual are visited back to the individual at least three fold the intensity of the original. Wicca’s teach self-discipline, personal responsibility, kinship with the planted and all living beings, open-mindedness and the virtues of diversity.
There is no specified place of worship for Wicca followers because of the belief that all of the earth is sacred. Worship or witchcraft may be practiced in whatever location the individual desires. Most rituals are performed in a ritual space marked out by a circle. Many Wicca’s liken their rituals more to meditation than to any sort of spell-casting. The teachings of Wicca encourage working in harmony with the natural elements of Earth, Water, Air, and Fire. The purpose of most ceremonies is to promote the inner spirit of the individual.
Actual ceremonial practices and witchcraft rituals vary widely.
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The Religious Society Of Friends (Quakers)
Quakers are another Christian denomination and are best known for their pacifist principles and their silent and spontaneous worship. Founded by George Fox in the 17th century CE. Friends believe that there is a Divine Light present in every person and in their worship they wait for the Holy Spirit to prompt them to speak or read or say a prayer. The movement has no leadership locally or centrally but staff are employed to carry out social service or peacemaking work. Quakers do not practise either baptism or Holy Communion. Quakers are also pacifists.
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Jehovah’s Witnesses
Jehovah’s Witnesses are Christians who accept the Bible as factually true in every detail and they believe that the coming of God’s Kingdom will be after the battle of Armageddon. Armageddon is believed to be imminent once the battle has been finished Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that there will be a thousand year reign of Christ on earth. Unlike most other Christian denominations, they do not celebrate Christmas, Easter, birthdays or any other holidays (except for one celebration at Passover which is the memorial of Christ’s death). They also belive that they own no allegiance to any person, flag, or nation. They believe that they only owe allegiance to Jehovah (God). People of this faith will not serve in the military.
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Mormons, The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints
Mormons are Christians who accept the divine revelation of the Christian Bible but they differ remarkably from the doctrines accepted by most other Christian groups. The tradition of this church is that an angel dictated a new and contemporary revelation the Book of Mormon to the American founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith. Mormons believe that God Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghosts are separate beings. They also believe that times in which we are living is just before the Second Coming of Christ and that the spreading of their gospel through missionary work is very important.
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Satanism
Religious Satanism is comprised of many different groups and dogmas. The majority of these Satanists belong to groups like the Church of Satan, this group does not believe in the existence of Satan as a deity.
One characteristic of Satanism is the belief in individual self-determinism and the idea of Satan serves more as a symbol of individual liberty and freedom. In addition, most Satanists believe that Christianity is flawed, that there is no absolute morality, and that individuals are solely responsible for their actions.
A very small number of Satanists worship Satan as a God, this form of Satanism is called “Luciferian” Satanism. These believers worship Lucifer and look upon him as a liberator who frees his worshipers from oppression. He is not particularly seen as an enemy of God. Some members of this group believe that Lucifer was banished by the Christian God because he saw flaws in creation and traced the responsibility of these flaws back to the creator.
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Scientology
Scientology was founded by an American called L. Ron Hubbard in 1950. The religion rejects the idea that man is simply a higher animal and does not believe that modern materialism is a positive force. In fact, Scientology sees materialism as a destructive force.
Thetan is the term used to describe a persons inner spirit, this spirit is not a separate part of the person. Scientologist believe that a person is made up of three elements – Theta, mind and body – and that any person can be helped to take control of themselves though using this “applied religious philosophy”. Scientology teaches that the human mind has two parts, an analytical part and a reactive part. The reactive part of the mind records everything the individual experiences, one of the goals of Scientologists is to neutralise the activity of the reactive mind so that the individual may gain better personal control.
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Humanism
Humanism is an outlook of goodwill and reason toward fellow man. Humanist do not accept a belief in God or any Divine plan for humanity. Freedom and tolerance to all are basic Humanist beliefs, a person of this philosophy believes in respect for all people regardless of race, class or creed.
Humanist believe in having faith in man’s intellect and sprit and view the highest good as any action that serves the best for mankind. Humanism’s main focus is a sense of morality and they believe very strongly in every individual’s freedom of choice.
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Universal Unitarianism
Universal Unitarians believe that individuals should be allowed to pursue religious truth according to their own conscience. The membership of this movement can be widely varied – from atheist to Catholics, Pagans and Jews. Universal Unitarians believe that there are certain fundamental beliefs concerning religion and how life should be lived.
A few of their beliefs are: that everyone is of equal value; that justice equality and compassion should also be paramount in human relations; that the goal of the world community is for peace liberty and justice for all; and finally; that they hold respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which humanity is a part.
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Shinto
Shinto is a nature focused religion of Japan, the origins of this belief system are unknown, it dates back to prehistory. . Shinto stresses the harmony of natural beauty and the appreciation of perceived reality. Today’s Shinto practitioners place a great emphasis on tradition and ceremonial custom, rather than on religious or metaphysical doctrines.
Shinto has many rituals which are performed to celebrate purity, clarity and contact with the diverse forces of nature. Traditionally, the rituals were closely linked with the seasons.
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Taoism
Tao’s literal translation is “path” or “way”. Some have attempted to describe the Tao as “the way the universe works” – the changing from night to day, growth and decline – are all effortless aspects of the cycles of life. A few of the beliefs held by Taoist are:
• Submission, flexibility and profound awareness of the natural order are essential.
• A rejection of calculated restless, goal oriented efforts.
• A belief that the Tao manifests itself everywhere.
• A trust in the benefits of effortless, spontaneous action in accordance with the requirements of the time.
• An understanding that the Tao is eternally new, creative and beyond any literal expression.
In Taoist philosophy there is an emphasis on the importance of balance in all things
The fundamental precept of Taoism could be said to reflect the principle of action based on the natural world. A Taoist believes that the individual should seek the truth by adapting a patient, accepting view on natural patterns and influences worthy of emulation.
Taoism elevates the principles of non-control and non-interference. The goal of a Taoist is to attain complete simplicity through prolonged observation and mediation. This simplicity should also be combined with a profound faith in the natural process and transcend any restless struggling or desire. To pursue the Tao, one must seek to live in complete harmony with the patterns of nature. The goal is to live openly and in touch with nature.
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Zoroastrian
Zoroastrianism is the first recorded monotheistic religion of the world. The date of it’s founding is not certain, but scholars generally agree that it began between 2000 and 1800 BCE.
The founder of Zoroastrianism was a man called Zarathustra (or Zoroaster as called by the Greeks). It is said that Zarathustra saw the God (Ahura Mazda (the wise Lord)). It is believed that during this encounter Zarathustra feld conscious of His presence and heard His words, words which are recorded in the five songs or poems he subsequently composed. These songs or poems are called “Gathas”, which forms part of the Zoroastrian sacred text called the Avesta.
It may seem that there is more information on perticular religions. This was NOT intensional. I simply have put the information that I had readily available.
I have read all of this myself and then some. I enjoy this topic for the merrits that each person brings to the "table". As I am sure you can tell I do know a decent amount on quite a few religions. However I must admit that a few of the ones listed below I have personally never heard mentioned before.
Once a few people have read this and posted up their religion and thoughts on that said religion I will be posting mine up. So no worries laugh.gif . Just to resay what I did earlier please keep this clean and also try not to blatently put down someone elses thoughts or beliefs. We are all adults here and lets act that way B) .
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Christianity
Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ as well as the teaching of the various churches within Christianity.
201 AD
The first specific Christian church building erected in Syria.
1456 AD
The Gutenberg Bible is Printed
1508 AD
Martin Luther Writes and Publicises his 95 Theses. This is the beginning of the foundation of the Lutheran church.
1533 AD
King Henry VIII breaks with the Catholic Church and founds the Anglican Church.
1535 AD
John Calvin writes, The Institutes of the Christian Religion. Marks the beginnings of Calvinist Churches.
1609 AD
The Baptist Church is founded.
1611 AD
First appearance of the King James Bible, or Authorised Version, an official translation of the Bible into English.
1827 AD
Joseph Smith founds the Mormon Church
1914 AD
William Durham founds the Assemblies of God, which eventually becomes the largest Pentecostal Denomination in the world.
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Judaism
It is sometimes referred to as the “parent faith” of Christianity. Christianity and Judaism both recognize the Old Testament as Holy Scripture.
450 BC
Torah (Pentateuch – First division of the Jewish Scriptures) begins to gain recognition as Scriptures.
90-150 AD
Writings (third and last division of the Jewish Scriptures) is discussed and accepted as sacred scripture)
400 AD
Jewish Palestinian Talmud is Edited.
1200 AD
The Zohar (a Jewish kabalistic book) is written
1567/1571 AD
Publication of the Shulhan Aruk (code of Jewish law by Joseph Caro)
1900-1910 AD
Founding of the Modern Jewish Orthodox movement
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Jainism
Jainism believes that the universe and all its substance or entities are eternal. Jains believe that all living things (animals and plants) have souls and are of equal value.
1500 BC (estimated)
Rishabhadeva, 1st Thirthankara (Prophet of Jainism). The founder of Jainism.
87 AD
Pushpadanta starts to write the Shatkhandagam
156 AD
Bhutbali completes the writing of the Shatkhandagam.
Bhadrabahu, the last man who was the leader of the undivided Jainist.
First Century AD (approximately)
The lifetime of Kundakunda, the celebrated author of the four influential Jainist books Samaya Sara (Treatise of the True Self), Pravachana Sara (Treatise of Lectures), Niyama Sara (Treatise on Pure Rules), Panchastikaya Sara (Treatise on Five Universal Components) and Ashta Pahuda (Eight Steps).
1451 AD
Lonkashah founded the Dhundhia Order of Jainism.
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Sikhism
It is recognised as the youngest of world religions. Among it’s many teachings Sikhism promotes the unity of God, universal love, equality and brotherhood of man, strict moral conduct and the rejection of the caste system, idol worship, superstitious belief and inferiority of women.
1469 AD
Birth of Guru Nanak (founder of Sikhism).
1563 AD
Guru Arjan Dev (5th Guru) born.
He compiled the First Sikh scripture.
1708 AD
Guru Gobind Singh dies after conferring Guruship to the Guru Granth Sahib (scripture).
2004 AD
400th commemoration year of the Sikh scripture (Adi Granth), first installed in Harmandar Sahib in 1604 by the Fifth Guru.
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Islam
610 AD
Muhammad receives the first revelation of the Qur’an.
622 AD
Hijra. The move of Muhammad and his early community to Medina. The first year of the Muslim Calendar.
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Hinduism
Hindus themselves use various terms such as sanatana-dharma (loosely translated as “eternal religion”) to describe their faith; the word “Hindu” is originally a geographic designation (those who live east of the Indus River) and is not found in any Hindu scriptures.
Hinduism has no single founder. While Hinduism may be a collection of faiths, one basic tenet of Hinduism is a belief in the difference between spirit (eternal) and matter (temporary).
2300-200 BC
Composition of the Rig-veda, Yajur-veda, Sma-veda, Atharva-veda, and the Upanisads.
400 BC – 400 AD
Composition of the Mahabharata
200 BC – 300 AD
Composition of the Dharma-sastras, laws of Manu, Ramayana, and Bhagavad-gita
300-1700 AD
Composition of the Puranas and early Tantras
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Buddhism
Buddhism developed from Hinduism, and while there are some fundamental differences between the two there are also some core beliefs which they both share.
486 AD
The first Buddhist Council
1391 AD
Birth of Gendeun Drubpa, later identified as the fist Dalai Lama
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Baha’i
It is a monotheistic faith that recognizes the validity of all the world’s great religions. The religion was founded approximately 160 years ago, making it the world’s youngest monotheistic faith.
1817 AD
Birth Bahá’u’lláh.
1844 AD
Declaration of the Báb
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Agnosticism
An agnostic is someone who doubts the existence of any God or Gods. It is someone who thinks that it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of any spirit or God(s). An agnostic has reserved judgement on this matter and believes that there is no sufficient evidence to support or deny such beings. Some agnostics believe that it is impossible for humans to every know.
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Atheism
Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of a God or Gods. Atheism can also be seen as having two polar distinctions – “weak atheism” and “strong atheism”. Weak atheism describes someone who is simply sceptical and holds a disbelief in God. A strong atheist can be qualified as someone who holds an explicit belief that there is no God or Gods.
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FreeThinkers
A freethinker is one someone who thinks freely and is prepared to consider any possibility. A freethinker believes in determining which ideas are right or wrong through reason according to a consistent set of rules.
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Secularism
The word secular means “of this world” in Latin and it is the opposite of religious. Secularism is a philosophy which forms its ethics without reference to religious dogmas and which believes in the promotion of the development of human art and science.
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Rationalism
Rationalist believe that the source of knowledge is reason and logic. Rationalists believe in a naturalistic alternative to the appeals of religious accounts of human nature and conduct. Rationalist belive that significant knowledge of the world can best be achieved by reason alone.
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PostModernism
Modernism is defined by the idea that humans and society can be perfected through the proper use of science, reason and democratic values. Postmodernism rejects this premise and believes that science and reason are not tools which transcend culture or politics. Postmodernist believe that science and reason are tools which are used by people to exercise political and cultural domination over other groups.
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Confucianism
Confucianism was established over 2,500 years ago. It is still alive today and represents a very diverse mix of interpretation which is deeply linked to centuries of Chinese Historical development.
Confucius (or, K’ung Fu-tse, meaning “Master K’ung”) the founder of Confucianism, was born in 551 B.C.E. He was an official of the state of Lu (now known as Shangtung). He eventually left his government position to pursue the development of his philosophy further.
His primary interest was in politics and ethics rather than religion. He preached good behaviour and harmonious social interaction which was underpinned by personal moral development and adherence to proper action.
He has been called one of the most influential thinkers in human history.
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Paganism/Neo-Peganism
The umbrella term “neo-paganism” is a relatively new word to describe religions or belief systems that incorporate gods/goddesses, symbols, ritual and other aspects of an ancient religion. Many adherents to this movement prefer to be referred to simply as pagans because they find the term neo-pagan derogatory. Some of the most popular pagan, or neo-pagan movements are:
• Asatru
• Druidic
• Wiccans
The cycles of the sun and moon were integral to most pagan religions. The cycles of the year hold importance for all pagan religions, seasonal and nature observance form a very important part of the neo-pagan/pagan movement. Among the celebrations or observances that most members of this community observe are:
• The Winter Solstice (the shortest day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere). The emphasis is on renewal and rebirth out of darkness.
• Imbolc (a “cross-quarter holiday”). This is also known by some pagans/neo-pagans a Brigid. It falls between the winter solstice and the spring equinox. A celebration of the increasing light.
• The Spring Equinox. One of the two points of the year where the day and night are in balance. The celebration of the awakening of plants and animals and fertility are integral to this observance.
• Beltane. (a “cross-quarter holiday”). The midpoint between spring and summer. The time of the Mother Earth flowering. The occasion for the Maypole dance.
• The Summer Solstice. The longest day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere. A time to make commitments to loved ones and to cultivate healthy self-love.
• Lammas (a “cross-quarter holiday”). The midpoint between summer and autumn. A time to honour mother earth.
• The Fall Equinox. Regarded as the most powerful night of the year.
• Samhain (Hallowmas). Marks the neo-pagan new year.
Actual dates can vary slightly from year to year for some of these observances.
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Asatru
Asatru is also known as Odinism and is an ancient Norse religion. Asatru (from the Icelandic language meaning “true to Asa”), believes that each person is dependant on others and that it is only through working together that true harmony can be achieved. It is a religion or belief system that believes in contribution by the individual to the greater good.
The Gods (or Asa) are known as the Aesir and the Vanir. The Aesir are primarily warrior gods and are generally speaking the “higher gods”; while the Vanir are largely fertility gods. Asatru believe that there are “nine worlds” held together and reached by the yggdrassil (world tree). These worlds are the realms of the Gods, humans, light elves, dark elves, dwarves, giants and others.
Asatru believe in Nine Nobel Virtues:
• Courage
• Truth
• Honor
• Fidelity
• Discipline
• Hospitality
• Industriousness
• Self-Reliance
• Perseverance
Integral to the religion are a large and vast array of myths and legends which incorporate all beings. There are many rituals and forms of magic in Asatru. There are six major festivals in Asatru:
• Yule (Mother Night). This begins on the 20th December at sunset.
• The Charming of the Plow (February 1st)
• Eostre (the Spring Equinox)
• Valpurgis (the beginning of Summer)
• Midsummer (21st June)
• Loaf-Feast. A Harvest Festival on the 1st of August
• Winter Nights (around the Autumnal Equinox)
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Druids
Druids were ancient priest in a nature-based religion indigenous to Celtic Britain and other European regions. The actual term Druid means “oak knowledge”.
Documented evidence (mostly from the Romans) of the activities of this group go back to the third century B.C.E. Julius Ceasar noted that the Druids in Gaul formed a federation that crossed tribal boundaries (it seems that this same system existed in Britain). The Druids met annually and had great influence over political and social matters for their areas. The Druids were well respected and revered members of their communities.
The actual term Druid, does not refer to a cleric or religious person. The actual term refers to an elite class of respected Celtic officiates who were part of a powerful network which was based on common practice and outlook. It has been discovered that Druids performed the same tasks for their communities that a modern day scholar, judge, teacher or clergy member still performs today. The Druids also took part in divination and nature focused worship.
There is not definitive Druidic text. The Druidic culture was suppressed by ruling nations and lead to a necessity to keep the practices alive through myths, historical heroic stories and songs. The Druid practices of today still use mythology and heroic stories in their practice.
Some of the basic beliefs of the modern-day Druid are:
• A belief in a multiplicity of Gods and Goddesses.
• The requirement of respect and love for Nature
• A love for humanity and a belief that it is important to help fellow human beings.
• An importance is placed on celebrating the solar, lunar and other life cycles present in nature.
Historical Druid worship practices seem to have included a wide variety of nature gods. Services took place near lakes and rivers and in tree groves. Oaks and mistletoe are regarded as sacred plants.
In modern times, Druids can be varied and diverse in their beliefs and practices. There are 8 major Druidic festivals and observances, 4 correspond to the solar cycle and 4 correspond to the lunar cycle. The festivals mark the seasonal equinoxes and traditional harvest/planting times. The most well know Druidic celebration takes place at Stonehenge during the summer solstice.
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Wicca
Wicca, or witchcraft, is another earth religion. It is a religion which honours many Gods and Goddesses and which is mindful of the natural cycles in the world. There is not particular series or precepts to which a Wicca practitioner must adhere. In addition to the holidays outlined in the pagan/neo-pagan section, Wiccans also observe the Full Moon (there are 13 in the current calendar year).
There is no sacred text for the Wiccan follower, however, they do all tend to follow what is known as the “Wiccan Rede”, which states “An Ye harm None, Do what thou wilt”. Harm is defined as anything which works against an individuals free will, takes away from another, or harms an individual mentally, physically or spriturally.
In addition to the “Wiccan Rede”, Wiccans ethical duties are defined in the Law of Three. Simply put, the Law of Three states that the actions and even the thoughts of an individual are visited back to the individual at least three fold the intensity of the original. Wicca’s teach self-discipline, personal responsibility, kinship with the planted and all living beings, open-mindedness and the virtues of diversity.
There is no specified place of worship for Wicca followers because of the belief that all of the earth is sacred. Worship or witchcraft may be practiced in whatever location the individual desires. Most rituals are performed in a ritual space marked out by a circle. Many Wicca’s liken their rituals more to meditation than to any sort of spell-casting. The teachings of Wicca encourage working in harmony with the natural elements of Earth, Water, Air, and Fire. The purpose of most ceremonies is to promote the inner spirit of the individual.
Actual ceremonial practices and witchcraft rituals vary widely.
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The Religious Society Of Friends (Quakers)
Quakers are another Christian denomination and are best known for their pacifist principles and their silent and spontaneous worship. Founded by George Fox in the 17th century CE. Friends believe that there is a Divine Light present in every person and in their worship they wait for the Holy Spirit to prompt them to speak or read or say a prayer. The movement has no leadership locally or centrally but staff are employed to carry out social service or peacemaking work. Quakers do not practise either baptism or Holy Communion. Quakers are also pacifists.
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Jehovah’s Witnesses
Jehovah’s Witnesses are Christians who accept the Bible as factually true in every detail and they believe that the coming of God’s Kingdom will be after the battle of Armageddon. Armageddon is believed to be imminent once the battle has been finished Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that there will be a thousand year reign of Christ on earth. Unlike most other Christian denominations, they do not celebrate Christmas, Easter, birthdays or any other holidays (except for one celebration at Passover which is the memorial of Christ’s death). They also belive that they own no allegiance to any person, flag, or nation. They believe that they only owe allegiance to Jehovah (God). People of this faith will not serve in the military.
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Mormons, The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints
Mormons are Christians who accept the divine revelation of the Christian Bible but they differ remarkably from the doctrines accepted by most other Christian groups. The tradition of this church is that an angel dictated a new and contemporary revelation the Book of Mormon to the American founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith. Mormons believe that God Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghosts are separate beings. They also believe that times in which we are living is just before the Second Coming of Christ and that the spreading of their gospel through missionary work is very important.
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Satanism
Religious Satanism is comprised of many different groups and dogmas. The majority of these Satanists belong to groups like the Church of Satan, this group does not believe in the existence of Satan as a deity.
One characteristic of Satanism is the belief in individual self-determinism and the idea of Satan serves more as a symbol of individual liberty and freedom. In addition, most Satanists believe that Christianity is flawed, that there is no absolute morality, and that individuals are solely responsible for their actions.
A very small number of Satanists worship Satan as a God, this form of Satanism is called “Luciferian” Satanism. These believers worship Lucifer and look upon him as a liberator who frees his worshipers from oppression. He is not particularly seen as an enemy of God. Some members of this group believe that Lucifer was banished by the Christian God because he saw flaws in creation and traced the responsibility of these flaws back to the creator.
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Scientology
Scientology was founded by an American called L. Ron Hubbard in 1950. The religion rejects the idea that man is simply a higher animal and does not believe that modern materialism is a positive force. In fact, Scientology sees materialism as a destructive force.
Thetan is the term used to describe a persons inner spirit, this spirit is not a separate part of the person. Scientologist believe that a person is made up of three elements – Theta, mind and body – and that any person can be helped to take control of themselves though using this “applied religious philosophy”. Scientology teaches that the human mind has two parts, an analytical part and a reactive part. The reactive part of the mind records everything the individual experiences, one of the goals of Scientologists is to neutralise the activity of the reactive mind so that the individual may gain better personal control.
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Humanism
Humanism is an outlook of goodwill and reason toward fellow man. Humanist do not accept a belief in God or any Divine plan for humanity. Freedom and tolerance to all are basic Humanist beliefs, a person of this philosophy believes in respect for all people regardless of race, class or creed.
Humanist believe in having faith in man’s intellect and sprit and view the highest good as any action that serves the best for mankind. Humanism’s main focus is a sense of morality and they believe very strongly in every individual’s freedom of choice.
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Universal Unitarianism
Universal Unitarians believe that individuals should be allowed to pursue religious truth according to their own conscience. The membership of this movement can be widely varied – from atheist to Catholics, Pagans and Jews. Universal Unitarians believe that there are certain fundamental beliefs concerning religion and how life should be lived.
A few of their beliefs are: that everyone is of equal value; that justice equality and compassion should also be paramount in human relations; that the goal of the world community is for peace liberty and justice for all; and finally; that they hold respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which humanity is a part.
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Shinto
Shinto is a nature focused religion of Japan, the origins of this belief system are unknown, it dates back to prehistory. . Shinto stresses the harmony of natural beauty and the appreciation of perceived reality. Today’s Shinto practitioners place a great emphasis on tradition and ceremonial custom, rather than on religious or metaphysical doctrines.
Shinto has many rituals which are performed to celebrate purity, clarity and contact with the diverse forces of nature. Traditionally, the rituals were closely linked with the seasons.
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Taoism
Tao’s literal translation is “path” or “way”. Some have attempted to describe the Tao as “the way the universe works” – the changing from night to day, growth and decline – are all effortless aspects of the cycles of life. A few of the beliefs held by Taoist are:
• Submission, flexibility and profound awareness of the natural order are essential.
• A rejection of calculated restless, goal oriented efforts.
• A belief that the Tao manifests itself everywhere.
• A trust in the benefits of effortless, spontaneous action in accordance with the requirements of the time.
• An understanding that the Tao is eternally new, creative and beyond any literal expression.
In Taoist philosophy there is an emphasis on the importance of balance in all things
The fundamental precept of Taoism could be said to reflect the principle of action based on the natural world. A Taoist believes that the individual should seek the truth by adapting a patient, accepting view on natural patterns and influences worthy of emulation.
Taoism elevates the principles of non-control and non-interference. The goal of a Taoist is to attain complete simplicity through prolonged observation and mediation. This simplicity should also be combined with a profound faith in the natural process and transcend any restless struggling or desire. To pursue the Tao, one must seek to live in complete harmony with the patterns of nature. The goal is to live openly and in touch with nature.
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Zoroastrian
Zoroastrianism is the first recorded monotheistic religion of the world. The date of it’s founding is not certain, but scholars generally agree that it began between 2000 and 1800 BCE.
The founder of Zoroastrianism was a man called Zarathustra (or Zoroaster as called by the Greeks). It is said that Zarathustra saw the God (Ahura Mazda (the wise Lord)). It is believed that during this encounter Zarathustra feld conscious of His presence and heard His words, words which are recorded in the five songs or poems he subsequently composed. These songs or poems are called “Gathas”, which forms part of the Zoroastrian sacred text called the Avesta.
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From: Morton, IL
I just want to start off by saying that I am a comfirmed catholic and believe in christ and all that stuff BUT i dont think religion should stop at 1 belief. I find the buddhist religion very interesting and I dont really like worship and stuff in any way but I view myself as a christian with a buddhist perspective. I'm not one of those people that goes around saying 1 religion is right any everyone needs to convert or they wont go to heaven because what about the bushmen or ancient aztecs and mayas? They didnt even know about God - does that mean they will go to hell? I think as long as your basically a good person you shouldnt judge on religion. Church is overrated. You can worship quite happily in your own home and still be an amazing person and go to heaven.
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From: Bel Air, MD
Wow, couldnt have said it better myself. Personally I am Wiccan. Long story smile.gif . Really a dificult religion to explain. Anyway I am not a pusher of religion at all. Personally it doesnt matter to me what your faith is. I just think that every person has their own reasons to follow the religion (or lack there of) that they do. I basically think that as long as you are happy believing what you do and do not push it on others than you are great (in my book atleast). Everyone has to believe something and who are we to say whom is correct and who is not? The afterlife could verywell be what you make of it by your beliefs thus making no one right or wrong. Atleast that is how I look at it laugh.gif
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From: the Poconos, Pennsylvania
First things first...I just want to say...WOW...that is a lot of info, kudos. I am a confirmed Catholic, but at the same time I wouldn't consider myself as necessarily a "Catholic". I believe what I believe, a lot of it was influenced by being raised as a Catholic, but at the same time I think a lot of other religions have some genuinely great ways of looking at the world that people should follow. Like in the Asian originated religions, they strive for good Karma by living a good and positive existence. How can you say they got it wrong? Anyway, I have similar thoughts about similar things in many religions, so I live my life the best way I can, and I don't look to label my faith as anything more than what it is -- my faith.
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From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
You asked for it when you posted in a public forum!
Religion has no place in a world where intellignet people exist.
Religion is for people who are scared to believe that there is no god.
Religion is the DEATH of this planet. ( how many holy wars are going on as we speak??!!)
Religion does NOT bring us ALL together.
If there is a god, the earth is just an ant farm to watch, and not interfer.
If we were made in the image of god, then god is a sinner.
If you believe in the story of "noah's Arch" then you ARE a Moron!
I am 30 years old, and there IS NO god. ... trust me.
I am baptisied, and catholic. and have taken religion in school, and have been going to church since the first 14 years of my life.
Will religion help you when you are homeless, and starving on the street?? ,... no did'nt help me one bit. ( in fact the church that was giving out food on thanksgiving closed early that year, so I went starving wink1.gif
I am a real person, with life experience, I am not trying to force people NOT to believe in a god (which one by the way>?)
When I think about it, IF there IS a god, maybe he just went out for a coffee, and maybe his time is alot different than ours, in that our 5 minutes equal to his 5 million years,. ...
I could go on about how catholics think the earth is only 10 thousand years old, meanwhile this is completely IMPOSSIBLE since there is proof of Dinosaurs over millions of years ago. - This is a fact!!!
Preists have no serious intelligent answer to contradict this fact, of how old the earth REALLY is.
All I ask is to be intelligent in your beliefs smile.gif
Religion has no place in a world where intellignet people exist.
Religion is for people who are scared to believe that there is no god.
Religion is the DEATH of this planet. ( how many holy wars are going on as we speak??!!)
Religion does NOT bring us ALL together.
If there is a god, the earth is just an ant farm to watch, and not interfer.
If we were made in the image of god, then god is a sinner.
If you believe in the story of "noah's Arch" then you ARE a Moron!
I am 30 years old, and there IS NO god. ... trust me.
I am baptisied, and catholic. and have taken religion in school, and have been going to church since the first 14 years of my life.
Will religion help you when you are homeless, and starving on the street?? ,... no did'nt help me one bit. ( in fact the church that was giving out food on thanksgiving closed early that year, so I went starving wink1.gif
I am a real person, with life experience, I am not trying to force people NOT to believe in a god (which one by the way>?)
When I think about it, IF there IS a god, maybe he just went out for a coffee, and maybe his time is alot different than ours, in that our 5 minutes equal to his 5 million years,. ...
I could go on about how catholics think the earth is only 10 thousand years old, meanwhile this is completely IMPOSSIBLE since there is proof of Dinosaurs over millions of years ago. - This is a fact!!!
Preists have no serious intelligent answer to contradict this fact, of how old the earth REALLY is.
All I ask is to be intelligent in your beliefs smile.gif
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 34,642
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From: Los Lunas, New Mexico, USA.
Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon, 2004 Kia Sorento, 2010 Kia Soul
I'll lock it when it gets out of hand.
I am a Jack Mormon. Means I don't go to church but that's the last thing I was baptised as.
I belive that there may be a higher power, there may not. But that we should live our lives in a generally good manner.
I tend to belive that the Holy Bible and all the other quack books out there are just controls that were put on us in the middle ages to bring some sort of justice and peace out of the Anarchist times back in the mid ages of man.
I've just seen too much corruption, too much scandal, too much of everything by EVERY church to belive that some high spirit, looking from above somewhere, is going to send me to a flaming place down under for eternity, if I do bad. I also think that if there is a higher power that we report to when it's over, that he doesn't care weather or not we praise him in a church or wherever else. I feel that the belief and the manner in which you live will prove your worth if there is an afterlife.
I belive that we were put here to live our lifes as we see fit and we will be judged for it. Do mostly good, mind your P's and Q's, don't watch too much lesbo porn, and you'll get rewarded. Do mostly bad, anally fist yourself, and you get negative reinforcement.
Every religion rewrites their rules as to how they think life should be lived. Why can't I?
I am a Jack Mormon. Means I don't go to church but that's the last thing I was baptised as.
I belive that there may be a higher power, there may not. But that we should live our lives in a generally good manner.
I tend to belive that the Holy Bible and all the other quack books out there are just controls that were put on us in the middle ages to bring some sort of justice and peace out of the Anarchist times back in the mid ages of man.
I've just seen too much corruption, too much scandal, too much of everything by EVERY church to belive that some high spirit, looking from above somewhere, is going to send me to a flaming place down under for eternity, if I do bad. I also think that if there is a higher power that we report to when it's over, that he doesn't care weather or not we praise him in a church or wherever else. I feel that the belief and the manner in which you live will prove your worth if there is an afterlife.
I belive that we were put here to live our lifes as we see fit and we will be judged for it. Do mostly good, mind your P's and Q's, don't watch too much lesbo porn, and you'll get rewarded. Do mostly bad, anally fist yourself, and you get negative reinforcement.
Every religion rewrites their rules as to how they think life should be lived. Why can't I?
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From: Clovis, NM
Vehicle: 2010 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
QUOTE (x7xstring @ Apr 2 2005, 10:26 PM)
I am 30 years old, and there IS NO god. ... trust me.
I am baptisied, and catholic. and have taken religion in school, and have been going to church since the first 14 years of my life.
I am baptisied, and catholic. and have taken religion in school, and have been going to church since the first 14 years of my life.
Well, he said it guys. There is no God. Shut down your churches. Shouldn't we believe the guy who went to church "ever since the first 14 years of his life"?
I don't care if you are baptised and Catholic. If you don't believe in God you are not saved. The sign of true maturity is accepting the fact that other people have different religions. When I was first baptised I felt it was my duty to tell EVERYONE why there denomination was wrong. Now I could care less what denomination you are. Just because someone has religion in their life doesn't make them a moron.
BTW, this will get shut down as soon as it gets out of hand. Religion and politics on public forums tend to go bad really quick.
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Posts: 741
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From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
^^Hey, at least I come from some experience.
I went to a school where the teachers were preists, until I got fed up and switched high schools. So I guess because I am a good person, and does'nt believe in God anymore I am going to hell right??
Im going to hell because I dont worship a selfcentered god that needs people to worship him.
Your right wink1.gif
If I created a planet (a home) for my little inventions, I would'nt want them to worship me,... that would just be wrong. I would just sit, watch and laugh.
Please feel free to contest this statement.
I'm all ears wink1.gif
Well, I should really stop posting here, because your right, this can get ugly quick.
**EDIT:**
I've been thinking about this and I really do want to believe in a God, or some sort of higher power. I think I just need proof.
When I was 21 years old, and was very poor living on my own in downtown Toronto, there was a night where I was so hungry I was roaming the streets at about 11:30 at night looking for food, or something to steal so I could eat. I was walking for about 1 hour looking, and looking, then came upon a grocery store.
I saw that they had left out a loaf of bread that had past it's freshness date.
At the time I was'nt thinking If that was a sign, but many years after that I can see that it could have been? you know God knowing how hungry, and desperate I was that God put that bread there.
I was so happy to eat that night smile.gif I really do want to believe 02.gif
I went to a school where the teachers were preists, until I got fed up and switched high schools. So I guess because I am a good person, and does'nt believe in God anymore I am going to hell right??
Im going to hell because I dont worship a selfcentered god that needs people to worship him.
Your right wink1.gif
If I created a planet (a home) for my little inventions, I would'nt want them to worship me,... that would just be wrong. I would just sit, watch and laugh.
QUOTE (x7xstring @ Apr 3 2005, 04:26 AM)
[ I could go on about how catholics think the earth is only 10 thousand years old, meanwhile this is completely IMPOSSIBLE since there is proof of Dinosaurs over millions of years ago. - This is a fact!!!
Preists have no serious intelligent answer to contradict this fact, of how old the earth REALLY is.
All I ask is to be intelligent in your beliefs smile.gif
Preists have no serious intelligent answer to contradict this fact, of how old the earth REALLY is.
All I ask is to be intelligent in your beliefs smile.gif
Please feel free to contest this statement.
I'm all ears wink1.gif
Well, I should really stop posting here, because your right, this can get ugly quick.
**EDIT:**
I've been thinking about this and I really do want to believe in a God, or some sort of higher power. I think I just need proof.
When I was 21 years old, and was very poor living on my own in downtown Toronto, there was a night where I was so hungry I was roaming the streets at about 11:30 at night looking for food, or something to steal so I could eat. I was walking for about 1 hour looking, and looking, then came upon a grocery store.
I saw that they had left out a loaf of bread that had past it's freshness date.
At the time I was'nt thinking If that was a sign, but many years after that I can see that it could have been? you know God knowing how hungry, and desperate I was that God put that bread there.
I was so happy to eat that night smile.gif I really do want to believe 02.gif
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From: Minnetonka, MN
Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon
dude regaurdless if theres a god or not, you have no right to call anyone a moron if they believe there is. So you had all your life expiriences and believe there is not a god but you dont take into account how many people have lived thier lives to find out there IS a god. just cuz your life went one way, you cant generalize and say everyone elses is the same. And you cant call them a moron for thinking differently than you do. I mean who are you to decide who is right and who is wrong?