Suspension testing.
11-06-2003, 06:00 PM
#1
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Since we've got some auto-crossers here, I thought I would ask you guys if any of you have done any suspension testing.
if so, would you care to share the results/data?
I'm about to embark on a full suspension makeover of my new (to me) 97 1.8L Revision A. I plan on doing 200 Ft skidpad tests, 75 foot cone sloalm testing, and 0-60 brake testing, with the usual quarter mile trips added in for fun.
I'll be testing...
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension with Whiteline rear adjustable swaybar in 3 positions
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension with whiteline front bar (stock rear bar)
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension with whiteline front/rear bar (all 3 positions)
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension with super pro urethane suspension bushing kit
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension with super pro urethane suspension bushing kit and white line front/rear bars
Eibach dampers with Eibach springs, poly bushings, stock swaybars.
Eibach dampers with Eibach springs, poly bushings, whiteline rear bar only(3 positions)
Eibach dampers with Eibach springs, poly bushings, whiteline front bar (stock rear bar)
Eibach dampers with Eibach springs, poly bushings, whiteline swaybars front and rear
Then I want to covert over to a Koni-adjustable insert and ground control sleeve coilover, do a proper corner weighting, then do the swaybar testing all over again.
I'll also be re-doing alighment (camber, caster, toe in/out) at every major step in order to find the best compramise between cornering power and braking/acceleration ability.
Can anyone else think of any testing I'm missing?
if so, would you care to share the results/data?
I'm about to embark on a full suspension makeover of my new (to me) 97 1.8L Revision A. I plan on doing 200 Ft skidpad tests, 75 foot cone sloalm testing, and 0-60 brake testing, with the usual quarter mile trips added in for fun.
I'll be testing...
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension with Whiteline rear adjustable swaybar in 3 positions
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension with whiteline front bar (stock rear bar)
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension with whiteline front/rear bar (all 3 positions)
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension with super pro urethane suspension bushing kit
Stock clapped out 140,000 mile suspension with super pro urethane suspension bushing kit and white line front/rear bars
Eibach dampers with Eibach springs, poly bushings, stock swaybars.
Eibach dampers with Eibach springs, poly bushings, whiteline rear bar only(3 positions)
Eibach dampers with Eibach springs, poly bushings, whiteline front bar (stock rear bar)
Eibach dampers with Eibach springs, poly bushings, whiteline swaybars front and rear
Then I want to covert over to a Koni-adjustable insert and ground control sleeve coilover, do a proper corner weighting, then do the swaybar testing all over again.
I'll also be re-doing alighment (camber, caster, toe in/out) at every major step in order to find the best compramise between cornering power and braking/acceleration ability.
Can anyone else think of any testing I'm missing?
11-07-2003, 01:34 AM
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Is tire wear a concern? Are you going to try and keep tires constant?
Sounds good though.
Did you post this at HP in suspension or strategy?
My cousin AccentAE86 (has a LC Accent and 2 AE86's) is an autocrosser and has about 8 years racing experience. He has his racing and rally licences. He usually posts in suspension related topics. He would probably like to hear about this and hear your results. smile.gif
He's done some KONI inserts and TRD Japan springs on his friends AE92 and helped with suspesion work on his friend's new WRX.
Sounds good though.
Did you post this at HP in suspension or strategy?
My cousin AccentAE86 (has a LC Accent and 2 AE86's) is an autocrosser and has about 8 years racing experience. He has his racing and rally licences. He usually posts in suspension related topics. He would probably like to hear about this and hear your results. smile.gif
He's done some KONI inserts and TRD Japan springs on his friends AE92 and helped with suspesion work on his friend's new WRX.
11-07-2003, 08:29 AM
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Vehicle: 2K Tib
I've done extensive searches on the hyundai forums and on the internet. I am not aware of anyone that has done actual testing like you are proposing for Tiburons. Two or three things, if it were me:
Replace the upper strut mounts. If you want alignment adjustment other than toe, you'll need pillowball mounts from somewhere (I think Kspec sells them separate from struts). Camber bolts will not hold setting under autocross maneuvering (personal experience).
Add a Figure-8 track, if you have the space, since it combines all the elements of suspension. All phases of turns (left and right) as well as straight accel and braking. This is one of the best overall tests for a cars balance and cornering ability. It allows you to easily pick up throttle/braking under/over steer effects.
Last, buy a set of sticky street tires (e.g. Kuhmo MX or Azenis sports) and use them through out the testing with the same temps and pressures so you can reduce thier effect on the testing results. It doesn't matter what tire you use really, as long as it's consistent throughout the testing, but the stickier tire will show the suspension changes better.
Oh yeah, in case you didn't know Koni sports (yellows) are capable of damping ~425 lb/in spring rate on thier stiffest setting.
Replace the upper strut mounts. If you want alignment adjustment other than toe, you'll need pillowball mounts from somewhere (I think Kspec sells them separate from struts). Camber bolts will not hold setting under autocross maneuvering (personal experience).
Add a Figure-8 track, if you have the space, since it combines all the elements of suspension. All phases of turns (left and right) as well as straight accel and braking. This is one of the best overall tests for a cars balance and cornering ability. It allows you to easily pick up throttle/braking under/over steer effects.
Last, buy a set of sticky street tires (e.g. Kuhmo MX or Azenis sports) and use them through out the testing with the same temps and pressures so you can reduce thier effect on the testing results. It doesn't matter what tire you use really, as long as it's consistent throughout the testing, but the stickier tire will show the suspension changes better.
Oh yeah, in case you didn't know Koni sports (yellows) are capable of damping ~425 lb/in spring rate on thier stiffest setting.
11-07-2003, 03:50 PM
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I'm planning on using Kuhmo 712's for the start. It seems to be the most common tire people own on the boards, and it gives a 'baseline' for a "street" tire. Eventually I'll move up to the Azenis when the 712's wear out, then move up to R-compound rubber just so folks can get an idea of differences in rubber. When I switch tires, I won't be changing anything else, so we can get a good idea of the tire "differences" and 'advantages', if any show up.
I plan on running "street safe' settings for camber, toe, etc to save on tire wear, and again, to also show folks what they COULD do, and get reasonable tire life. Once I get better with suspension tuning/adjustments, and can do the adjustments quickly and accurately, then I'll investigate "agressive" alighment settings to increase performance, but I'll be setting them back to 'street safe' settings to save the tires. Once I go 'R-Compound" I'll probably have a spare set of tires/wheels, but I don't know if that's in the cards at the moment.
I'm looking at this as a 6-12 month project, and I'm itching to get started. My biggest difficulty right now is finding a place to test. Los Angeles doesn't have many "deserted' parking lots to test in, and the few are are frequently deserted are well patroled by rent-a-cops or real cops. I'm HOPING that California Speedway will get back to me about using their vast parking lot for testing if I pay the $10 admission fee on 'drag race' days (drag racing is in one very small corner of the lot), but they haven't gotten back to me yet. Don't worry, any parking lot tests will be completely swept clear of sand/dust/dirt/debris to try and give as close of a comparison to 'street' performance as possible.
I plan on running "street safe' settings for camber, toe, etc to save on tire wear, and again, to also show folks what they COULD do, and get reasonable tire life. Once I get better with suspension tuning/adjustments, and can do the adjustments quickly and accurately, then I'll investigate "agressive" alighment settings to increase performance, but I'll be setting them back to 'street safe' settings to save the tires. Once I go 'R-Compound" I'll probably have a spare set of tires/wheels, but I don't know if that's in the cards at the moment.
I'm looking at this as a 6-12 month project, and I'm itching to get started. My biggest difficulty right now is finding a place to test. Los Angeles doesn't have many "deserted' parking lots to test in, and the few are are frequently deserted are well patroled by rent-a-cops or real cops. I'm HOPING that California Speedway will get back to me about using their vast parking lot for testing if I pay the $10 admission fee on 'drag race' days (drag racing is in one very small corner of the lot), but they haven't gotten back to me yet. Don't worry, any parking lot tests will be completely swept clear of sand/dust/dirt/debris to try and give as close of a comparison to 'street' performance as possible.
11-07-2003, 04:23 PM
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Hehe, "street safe"....thats funny, if you ask me the factory settings arn't safe. Extend tire life, sure, but safe? :roll: Thats another discussion entirely. smile.gif
Anyway re: testing areas, check with your local autocrossers for thier venues, they shouldn't be in use this time of year and the owners should be open to discussion. If you have an in with some autocross guys local, you may even be able to rent/borrow some cones to set up your test area (I dunno, you may have your own cones).
Anyway re: testing areas, check with your local autocrossers for thier venues, they shouldn't be in use this time of year and the owners should be open to discussion. If you have an in with some autocross guys local, you may even be able to rent/borrow some cones to set up your test area (I dunno, you may have your own cones).
11-10-2003, 06:01 AM
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Wow! that's some project and I would be very interested in the results since I have the same car, same Khomo 712 tires and plan to installed most of the componets that you memtioned above.
The only thing different is the sway bar I would stay with Eibach Anti-Roll bars http://www.autocarparts.com/part/277/36 and I already have AOS strut bars, I don't particuly like Whiteline products. I'm also stepping up to R-componded tires, probably the Khomo 710 Victoracer for next season. Good luck!
The only thing different is the sway bar I would stay with Eibach Anti-Roll bars http://www.autocarparts.com/part/277/36 and I already have AOS strut bars, I don't particuly like Whiteline products. I'm also stepping up to R-componded tires, probably the Khomo 710 Victoracer for next season. Good luck!
11-10-2003, 04:01 PM
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Sorry, the "street safe" settings will cause somewhat increased tire wear, but will be better than the factory 'stock' settings. I'm also going to try to find "best" cornering settings, even though those probably won't be "street safe" for tire wear, or high speed stability.
I'm also going to be working on creating the "curves" for our car for suspension travel and body roll, so we can get an idea of what needs to be improved (parts wise) over the stock setup. I would like to find some adjustable camber plates. I'm thinking of making my own, or finding a set that's close and modifying them to work on our cars.
I'm also going to be working on creating the "curves" for our car for suspension travel and body roll, so we can get an idea of what needs to be improved (parts wise) over the stock setup. I would like to find some adjustable camber plates. I'm thinking of making my own, or finding a set that's close and modifying them to work on our cars.