You go Girl!!!! *UPDATE*
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I was in Saudi as part of the Army, like with every other country were we have bases, we have what is called a Status of Forces aggrement. It is document that is worked out between the Military Branches and Local government on what rules we are to follow while being in that host nation. These rules effect the uniform personel and DOD civillians only, not contractors that usually come with us, so If the Saudi's wanted that in our aggreement we as uniformed personel would have to follow it or suffer UCMJ action.
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She wins a battle, but the war is not over yet. *CHEER* YOU GO GIRL *CHEER*
Military Eases Muslim Garb Policy
WASHINGTON (AP) _ The U.S. military, in a policy reversal, will no longer require servicewomen in Saudi Arabia to wear Muslim-style head-to-toe robes when venturing off base.
Instead, wearing the robe, known as an abaya, ``is not mandatory but is strongly encouraged,'' according to an order by Gen. Tommy Franks, head of the U.S. Central Command, e-mailed to commanders in the region Saturday.
The Air Force's highest-ranking female fighter pilot is challenging the rule in court. Lt. Col. Martha McSally's lawsuit calls the policy unconstitutional and says it improperly forces American women to conform to others' religious and social customs.
McSally's lawsuit did not inspire the policy change, Central Command spokesman Col. Rick Thomas said Tuesday.
``The policy was under review before the lawsuit was filed, so the change was not a direct result of that,'' Thomas said. McSally's lawsuit, filed in federal court in Washington, also challenges policies requiring servicewomen to be accompanied by a man whenever they leave their base and to ride in the back seat of a car. Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia. Thomas said those policies remain in effect.
McSally will not drop her case, said John Whitehead, a lawyer with the Rutherford Institute, a religious freedom group representing her. The new policy is a step in the right direction but does not go far enough, Whitehead said, ``What it says to us is that it's not been rescinded,'' Whitehead said. ``It's like saying, `You're equal to us but you can't eat in the same restaurant because you're strongly encouraged to eat at one more fitting with your lower class.''' Whitehead said he has told McSally, who is now stationed at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Ariz., not to comment. Officials at the Air Force base referred calls to the Rutherford Institute.
Central Command, which oversees the military in Saudi Arabia and other countries in the region, had defended the policy, put into place after the 1991 Gulf War. Central Command officials had said the requirements for servicewomen made them less likely to face harassment or attack.
McSally and other critics said the policy was ironic, since U.S. forces in Afghanistan have fought to remove the Taliban regime, which required all women to wear an even more restrictive covering called a burkha.
The change in policy ``sends a strong signal that we recognize that military women in Saudi Arabia should be treated as their male compatriots are treated and be allowed to pick their civilian clothing,'' said Nancy Duff Campbell, co-president of the National Women's Law Center. Campbell's group is not a part of the lawsuit but has lobbied members of Congress to oppose the abaya rule.
[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Random ]
Military Eases Muslim Garb Policy
WASHINGTON (AP) _ The U.S. military, in a policy reversal, will no longer require servicewomen in Saudi Arabia to wear Muslim-style head-to-toe robes when venturing off base.
Instead, wearing the robe, known as an abaya, ``is not mandatory but is strongly encouraged,'' according to an order by Gen. Tommy Franks, head of the U.S. Central Command, e-mailed to commanders in the region Saturday.
The Air Force's highest-ranking female fighter pilot is challenging the rule in court. Lt. Col. Martha McSally's lawsuit calls the policy unconstitutional and says it improperly forces American women to conform to others' religious and social customs.
McSally's lawsuit did not inspire the policy change, Central Command spokesman Col. Rick Thomas said Tuesday.
``The policy was under review before the lawsuit was filed, so the change was not a direct result of that,'' Thomas said. McSally's lawsuit, filed in federal court in Washington, also challenges policies requiring servicewomen to be accompanied by a man whenever they leave their base and to ride in the back seat of a car. Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia. Thomas said those policies remain in effect.
McSally will not drop her case, said John Whitehead, a lawyer with the Rutherford Institute, a religious freedom group representing her. The new policy is a step in the right direction but does not go far enough, Whitehead said, ``What it says to us is that it's not been rescinded,'' Whitehead said. ``It's like saying, `You're equal to us but you can't eat in the same restaurant because you're strongly encouraged to eat at one more fitting with your lower class.''' Whitehead said he has told McSally, who is now stationed at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Ariz., not to comment. Officials at the Air Force base referred calls to the Rutherford Institute.
Central Command, which oversees the military in Saudi Arabia and other countries in the region, had defended the policy, put into place after the 1991 Gulf War. Central Command officials had said the requirements for servicewomen made them less likely to face harassment or attack.
McSally and other critics said the policy was ironic, since U.S. forces in Afghanistan have fought to remove the Taliban regime, which required all women to wear an even more restrictive covering called a burkha.
The change in policy ``sends a strong signal that we recognize that military women in Saudi Arabia should be treated as their male compatriots are treated and be allowed to pick their civilian clothing,'' said Nancy Duff Campbell, co-president of the National Women's Law Center. Campbell's group is not a part of the lawsuit but has lobbied members of Congress to oppose the abaya rule.
[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Random ]
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jherron23 and Damien-
Uh...did both of you guys get brainwashed in the military to the point that you forgot what you were fighting for or defending?
(in his best William Wallace/Mel Gibson voice) FREEDOM!!!!!!!!
Damien-
Bad anology. You are not FORCED to wear a Yarmulke when entering a synagogue. You do it by CHOICE. Many non Jewish people do NOT whear them when attending Jewish weddings in synagogues.
Military regulation cannot FORCE you to another religion, or force you to follow another religion. Military regulations or laws cannot break the constitution!
She has the Right as a US citizen to leave the base at will when off duty, and to dress as she wishes.
I said it above, twice, I'll say it again.
it is not a law in Saudi that women MUST wear the Abaya. IT IS A US MILITARY LAW!!! NOT A SAUDI LAW
Do you understand now? WE WERE FORCING OUR OWN PEOPLE TO DO WHAT THEY DO NOT FORCE THEIR OWN PEOPLE TO DO!!!!
Can you comprehend how WRONG that is? When we are supposed to be defending FREEDOM?
Uh...did both of you guys get brainwashed in the military to the point that you forgot what you were fighting for or defending?
(in his best William Wallace/Mel Gibson voice) FREEDOM!!!!!!!!
Damien-
Bad anology. You are not FORCED to wear a Yarmulke when entering a synagogue. You do it by CHOICE. Many non Jewish people do NOT whear them when attending Jewish weddings in synagogues.
Military regulation cannot FORCE you to another religion, or force you to follow another religion. Military regulations or laws cannot break the constitution!
She has the Right as a US citizen to leave the base at will when off duty, and to dress as she wishes.
I said it above, twice, I'll say it again.
it is not a law in Saudi that women MUST wear the Abaya. IT IS A US MILITARY LAW!!! NOT A SAUDI LAW
Do you understand now? WE WERE FORCING OUR OWN PEOPLE TO DO WHAT THEY DO NOT FORCE THEIR OWN PEOPLE TO DO!!!!
Can you comprehend how WRONG that is? When we are supposed to be defending FREEDOM?
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It's for their own friggin' protection that they require that. I've been to Yemen, Egypt, Sudan, Indonesia as well as other places all over the world. When in another culture especially one so different from your own it's a good idea to try and blend in a little if possible. In extreme muslim cultures a women not covered (wether law or not) is looked upon as a prostitute, a woman without any honor and is thus looked upon by the men as an open target. These are vary repressive societies and men there often don't get to see unveiled women. Instances of sexual assault is common and men often don't get any punishment for committing sexual crimes. I would imagine the army is trying to keep that from happening to any of it's service women. You don't have to agree with it but it's just a safety issue. If you were rich you wouldn't walk into a bad neighborhood with money and diamonds sticking out of you pockets everywhere now would you? This is the same thing. It's not a damn womens rights issue. She's just too stupid to realize that rule is to reduce the possibility of her getting molested while off base.
JustinL
JustinL
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JustenL
Saudia Arabia has over 500,000 tourists every year. Most of them from the USA, the UK, or other European countries. They do just fine without being raped or pillaged, you would think a US Military woman with proper hand to hand combat skills could do even better!
That is a lame excuse. Women in the USA get raped and killed every day. Should they ALL stay barefoot in the kitchen?
Saudia Arabia has over 500,000 tourists every year. Most of them from the USA, the UK, or other European countries. They do just fine without being raped or pillaged, you would think a US Military woman with proper hand to hand combat skills could do even better!
That is a lame excuse. Women in the USA get raped and killed every day. Should they ALL stay barefoot in the kitchen?
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Damien:
If someone from some other culture who doesn't wear clothes (some African cultures for instance) comes to our country she would be required to wear clothes, right?!
If someone from some other culture who doesn't wear clothes (some African cultures for instance) comes to our country she would be required to wear clothes, right?!
Well, if she came to my hometown, Eugene,OR, she could at least go topless. For some good reason, this is legal here!
tongue.gif
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Random,
Most tourist I ever met weren't terribly ****ing bright when it came to international travel sensibility either. Whatever. When we were in Egypt my mom dressed conservitavely and wasn't harrassed, yet other people that we knew didn't and had guys driving up to them in Mercedes asking them to come back and **** them. It is ****ing common sense, most tourists totally lack that though.
JustinL
Most tourist I ever met weren't terribly ****ing bright when it came to international travel sensibility either. Whatever. When we were in Egypt my mom dressed conservitavely and wasn't harrassed, yet other people that we knew didn't and had guys driving up to them in Mercedes asking them to come back and **** them. It is ****ing common sense, most tourists totally lack that though.
JustinL
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QUOTE
you would think a US Military woman with proper hand to hand combat skills could do even better!
She's in the Air Force. She gets no formal hand to hand training and only one day of rifle training. On top of it all she's an officer which means they know even less rolleyes.gif .I was just playing devil's advocate, I think it was put in place there to protect their servicewomen not to oppress them.
QUOTE
She has the Right as a US citizen to leave the base at will when off duty, and to dress as she wishes.
Contrary to popular belief they can tell what to do. when you enter the military you give up a few rights for in exchange getting to kill people and break things. They own you off duty or on. I know from personal experience. They pay for your housing, your food, your clothes, and they employ. they own you like children. So yes they can tell what to wear (no sexually suggestive clothes etc), what to do, and wether you can leave base at all. I know many times when base liberty or town pass has been taken away for discliplinary actions or to prevent such.Anyway...she has to right not to wear it and the AF has the right not to let her off base.
