What would be wrong about outlawing abortion, except for emergencies?
06-27-2013, 04:50 PM
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What would be wrong about outlawing abortion, except for emergencies?
Except cases of rape/incest/deformities/danger to the mother, I don't really see why someone would object to any kind of laws against abortion. What are your thoughts?
06-27-2013, 06:34 PM
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If it is harder to get an abortion, then abortion as a form of birth control becomes MUCH less convenient. Therefore, they hate the idea forever.
- I don't think it's up to me to decide what's right or wrong unless it's my child. 
06-27-2013, 10:52 PM
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Because a fetus is not a person, it's a a part of a woman's body and nobody should get to decide what a woman does with her own body.
/end
/end
06-28-2013, 05:10 AM
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ive stated my stance on this before so ill just quote myself
ABORTIONS LEGAL FOR EVERYONE!! next time you wanna talk sh*t about abortions, flip the channel to TLC
dont want an abortion? dont f*cking get one
dont want other people to get abortions? send me your address and we'll have em ship babies there for you to raise. oh you cant afford it? how the f*ck do you expect people of lower class to.
jesus doesnt want abortions? well you can move to the country where he is president.
dont want an abortion? dont f*cking get one
dont want other people to get abortions? send me your address and we'll have em ship babies there for you to raise. oh you cant afford it? how the f*ck do you expect people of lower class to.
jesus doesnt want abortions? well you can move to the country where he is president.
06-28-2013, 05:45 AM
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reminds me of a funny/sad/true comic....
Though I understand why it is legal. I wouldn't go as far as voting for it to be legal, but I wouldn't vote against it. It is too touchy/unclear of a subject. You have people like I8 who claim that it isn't a person, and others who claim it is. I say claim because you can't really prove it, people even argue about the definition of what makes a person a person. There are scientist on both sides that say the opposite.
I think one thing we can all agree on is that it is a difficult descision to make, I have no desire to look down on those that do, I'm sure it is a hard enough descision to make and they beat themselves up enough. Even those that don't believe it is a person, they are fully aware that if they didnt' go out of their way to kill it, it would have been born and would have become something of a person in society. People wonder all the time and beat themselves up over many descisions of much less weight. "What if I only...I wonder what would have happened".
Though I think IF you vote against it, you should be willing/mandatory to take that child. And then you won't have so many on their high horse against it. Their argument is always "well it encourages abortions, it wasn't my mistake, why should I have to deal with it" Allowing something doesn't encourage it, propoganda does though.... I think there should be educatoin on it. Let HER decide, teach her about the operation, show her pics of the child/fetus, explain to her what she is about to do. I am not saying show grusome pics and guilt trip her or scare her, but show the truth, if you REALLY don't think it is a person, than pics and education shouldn't effect you AS MUCH, again it is a huge descision which will effect you regardless.
Though when a place called "Planned Parenthood" is the #1 funding source for a process than ends parenthood, that is leaning towards the propoganda side. Don't tell them it is no big deal, it is a simple medical procedure, but don't show them grusom pics and tell them they are gonig to hell either. Unbiased truth and education should be the way to go. Let them decide if it is a person or not, or if they want to go through with it or not. Real Pro-choice, not biased them towards abortion by telling them it isn't a person though we don't have a definitive definition for a person. Notice how it is always "you have the right to choose an abortion" Rarely is it said, "you have the right to chose OR to not chose an abortion" Sure the having a baby freedom is a given....but it makes pro-choices seem like they are pro-abortion and many are viewed that way. Maybe if there were non biased pro-educaters out there, it wouldn't be viewed that way. Maybe if they didn't push "non-person" mentality and try to make it not such a big deal they wouldn't be viewed that way.
And to those who say "it wasn't my mistake, why should I ahve to adopt" It was a person...but now it is a mistake to you? It almost sounds like they think of it as less of a person than the ones who say a fetus isn't a person. Sure you can't raise 1000 babies by yourself, but 1000 votes won't win it over either. If you can get enough votes to ban abortion, then everyone of those votes should be overjoyed to raise the babies, the little miracles. Not just happy because they won some battle, and stroke their pride about how much they help out while these babies that have to be born now die from starvation when born or are raised in an unloving home or parents that didnt' want them and abuse/neglect them.
That solves the problem right there. It either stays legal, or if you get enough votes to ban it, you have enough to adopt those precious miracles. Sure the women still have to carry and nuture it for 9 months and go through the pain of giving birth....that should be enough deterant from having sex for those who claim the "encourages irresponsiblilty". Who knows, once it is born, they might change their mind and be super glad they didnt' kill them? They might become a person that votes to ban it and joins the 'adoption clause' folks.
edit: Basically what FOD said....but a but more long winded....wierd, I am never loong winded lol
Though I understand why it is legal. I wouldn't go as far as voting for it to be legal, but I wouldn't vote against it. It is too touchy/unclear of a subject. You have people like I8 who claim that it isn't a person, and others who claim it is. I say claim because you can't really prove it, people even argue about the definition of what makes a person a person. There are scientist on both sides that say the opposite.
I think one thing we can all agree on is that it is a difficult descision to make, I have no desire to look down on those that do, I'm sure it is a hard enough descision to make and they beat themselves up enough. Even those that don't believe it is a person, they are fully aware that if they didnt' go out of their way to kill it, it would have been born and would have become something of a person in society. People wonder all the time and beat themselves up over many descisions of much less weight. "What if I only...I wonder what would have happened".
Though I think IF you vote against it, you should be willing/mandatory to take that child. And then you won't have so many on their high horse against it. Their argument is always "well it encourages abortions, it wasn't my mistake, why should I have to deal with it" Allowing something doesn't encourage it, propoganda does though.... I think there should be educatoin on it. Let HER decide, teach her about the operation, show her pics of the child/fetus, explain to her what she is about to do. I am not saying show grusome pics and guilt trip her or scare her, but show the truth, if you REALLY don't think it is a person, than pics and education shouldn't effect you AS MUCH, again it is a huge descision which will effect you regardless.
Though when a place called "Planned Parenthood" is the #1 funding source for a process than ends parenthood, that is leaning towards the propoganda side. Don't tell them it is no big deal, it is a simple medical procedure, but don't show them grusom pics and tell them they are gonig to hell either. Unbiased truth and education should be the way to go. Let them decide if it is a person or not, or if they want to go through with it or not. Real Pro-choice, not biased them towards abortion by telling them it isn't a person though we don't have a definitive definition for a person. Notice how it is always "you have the right to choose an abortion" Rarely is it said, "you have the right to chose OR to not chose an abortion" Sure the having a baby freedom is a given....but it makes pro-choices seem like they are pro-abortion and many are viewed that way. Maybe if there were non biased pro-educaters out there, it wouldn't be viewed that way. Maybe if they didn't push "non-person" mentality and try to make it not such a big deal they wouldn't be viewed that way.
And to those who say "it wasn't my mistake, why should I ahve to adopt" It was a person...but now it is a mistake to you? It almost sounds like they think of it as less of a person than the ones who say a fetus isn't a person. Sure you can't raise 1000 babies by yourself, but 1000 votes won't win it over either. If you can get enough votes to ban abortion, then everyone of those votes should be overjoyed to raise the babies, the little miracles. Not just happy because they won some battle, and stroke their pride about how much they help out while these babies that have to be born now die from starvation when born or are raised in an unloving home or parents that didnt' want them and abuse/neglect them.
That solves the problem right there. It either stays legal, or if you get enough votes to ban it, you have enough to adopt those precious miracles. Sure the women still have to carry and nuture it for 9 months and go through the pain of giving birth....that should be enough deterant from having sex for those who claim the "encourages irresponsiblilty". Who knows, once it is born, they might change their mind and be super glad they didnt' kill them? They might become a person that votes to ban it and joins the 'adoption clause' folks.
edit: Basically what FOD said....but a but more long winded....wierd, I am never loong winded lol
06-28-2013, 07:48 AM
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I know of a 16 year old girl who was open about having sex. Whether joking or not, she said she isn't afraid of getting pregnant because she would just have an abortion. Before graduating high school, she did have an abortion. While it may not encourage it, it definitely impacts the perceived risks and consequences in a teenagers mind.
I've jokingly said I'm not concerned with lung cancer from smoking because by the time I'm 40 they'll have a cure. I say it jokingly but the hint of truth makes me feel better, regardless of my aunt having emphysema and living off oxygen. I still enjoyed my cigars, but when the doctor told me that smoking could double the risk of my already existent macular degeneration progressing faster, which has ZERO ability of being reversed, I stopped smoking almost entirely (maybe 1 cigar every 3-4 months). The difference for me is cancer is a common thing, many people get cancer and a small percentage actually die from it thanks to modern medicine, but knowing that if my macular degeneration progresses to the next stage I may go blind for the rest of my life gives me a much more realistic consequence that I can't shake off and claim there's a medical procedure that can make it go away.
There are teenagers that aren't afraid of getting pregnant, who are willing to take the risk because there's an 'out' (medical procedure) available to them so that they don't have to worry about the consequences.
I've jokingly said I'm not concerned with lung cancer from smoking because by the time I'm 40 they'll have a cure. I say it jokingly but the hint of truth makes me feel better, regardless of my aunt having emphysema and living off oxygen. I still enjoyed my cigars, but when the doctor told me that smoking could double the risk of my already existent macular degeneration progressing faster, which has ZERO ability of being reversed, I stopped smoking almost entirely (maybe 1 cigar every 3-4 months). The difference for me is cancer is a common thing, many people get cancer and a small percentage actually die from it thanks to modern medicine, but knowing that if my macular degeneration progresses to the next stage I may go blind for the rest of my life gives me a much more realistic consequence that I can't shake off and claim there's a medical procedure that can make it go away.
There are teenagers that aren't afraid of getting pregnant, who are willing to take the risk because there's an 'out' (medical procedure) available to them so that they don't have to worry about the consequences.
06-28-2013, 10:06 AM
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That's a parenting issue, not a legal issue. These parenting issues would only get worse, not better by forcing women who don't want children to have them.
06-28-2013, 12:42 PM
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If you outlaw abortion people will still get unsafe illegal abortions. At a lower rate, but they still will.
I don't want any more kids, but I do want to have sex. I will take appropriate measures to attempt to keep from making a baby, but sometimes even if you are properly using birth control a pregnancy can still happen. In that case I would want the fetus to be aborted. Add to that if I wasn't in a committed relationship with the pregnant woman it could cost me upwards of $175k over the next 21 years for her to raise this kid that I don't want.
If you gave me a choice between killing someone without consciousness painlessly or paying $175k over 21 years to keep them alive I would choose to kill them whether they're a fetus or a vegetable in a coma.
I would hope to abort ASAP, before the fetus develops into a being with consciousness.
Why not get a vasectomy? Last time I tried the doctor refused because I had to have at least 3 children or be over 30. I could get one now, but I've spent the last 14 years being sexually active without making a baby so I will wait until I get medical insurance.
I don't want any more kids, but I do want to have sex. I will take appropriate measures to attempt to keep from making a baby, but sometimes even if you are properly using birth control a pregnancy can still happen. In that case I would want the fetus to be aborted. Add to that if I wasn't in a committed relationship with the pregnant woman it could cost me upwards of $175k over the next 21 years for her to raise this kid that I don't want.
If you gave me a choice between killing someone without consciousness painlessly or paying $175k over 21 years to keep them alive I would choose to kill them whether they're a fetus or a vegetable in a coma.
I would hope to abort ASAP, before the fetus develops into a being with consciousness.
Why not get a vasectomy? Last time I tried the doctor refused because I had to have at least 3 children or be over 30. I could get one now, but I've spent the last 14 years being sexually active without making a baby so I will wait until I get medical insurance.