so, uh, we're goin' to war
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My opinion:
I don't like war, but why give anyone the chance to bring war to our home soil again? I for one don't ever want to see any kind of repeat to the Towers, Pearl Harbor, or whatever. Bring the war to their home towns and get it done with. I for one would have had that SOB killed the last time he started crap with the world.
I don't like war, but why give anyone the chance to bring war to our home soil again? I for one don't ever want to see any kind of repeat to the Towers, Pearl Harbor, or whatever. Bring the war to their home towns and get it done with. I for one would have had that SOB killed the last time he started crap with the world.
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From: Los Lunas, New Mexico, USA.
Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon, 2004 Kia Sorento, 2010 Kia Soul
Yeah, well get a grip.
Seems like most of the rest of the world has forgotten a few things. A few things called Pearl Harbor and 9/11. These haven't happened elsewhere. Even if they did happen in another country, would any of them have the balls to take a serious step for their own people's safety like the US has?
No.
It's very easy for the public, people who've not seen what even the simplest of Chemical or Biological agents can do, to turn a blind eye, get caught up in 'catch phrases', and say "Yes, those are bad, but time will take care of it".
It hasn't.
12 years folks, 12 years of lies, deciet, mistrust, and then the ousting of the UN Inspectors. 12 years of "Oh, we'll find it..."
BS.
Folks, I've had the mis-privilage of working in the field of NBC (Nuclear, Biological and Chemical) Defence for the past 10 years. I've seen the pictures that are classified, I've seen the videos that were supposed to "Not exist", and I've done the calculations on effects of "WMD" on civilian populations.
You have no clue.
None.
First off...
Nerve Agents... Did you know that household RAID is a nerve agent? Basicly it's a very dosed down version of VX gas, and when used properly, it makes them freaking ants twitch and lose control, and die. Nerve agents, one drop properly spread, can kill 10 people. When it's an arosol, one pint could kill 1,000 people. Easy. Nerve agents, such as VX, absorb thru the skin or are breathed in. They block the body's control instructions to the muscles. You crap yourself, loose bladder control, fall on the ground, and then your involuntary muscle actions cease and your lungs stop sucking in air and your heart stops beating.
All of this takes about 2 - 5 minutes after exposure.
Now, just for Nerve Agents, VX in particluar, Iraq was known to have over 10,000 artillery shells loaded with the stuff. Also, approximately 20,000 gallons of the juice sitting in storage. They say they got rid of it in the late 90's, but there are no records.
Yeah right.
Ever read any Tom Clancy? Go pick up Rainbow 6. It's got some GREAT examples of plausible delivery methods for these things, killing millions. And all the terrorists need is ONE cropduster.
Blood Agents - These are nice. Basicly, if they get used, your screwed. The particulates in blood agents eat right thru the filters in our protective masks. Then, when inhaled, they coagulate your blood in your veins.
Sorta hard for the heart to pump scabs eh?
Blister Agents - (Mustard Gas) THIS stuff is one of my favorites! It gets on you, makes hideous blisters, and, if by chance, you DIDN'T inhale it (If you did, your lungs are full of blisters and puss, you die), you can't move. Moving will burst the blisters and anywhere the juice from the blisters goes, you'll get MORE BLISTERS! Keep in mind that Iraq has about 15,000 FILLED artillery shells and bombs of these too. Unaccounted for.
Choking Agents - (CS / Riot Gas) This is the least of your worries. It stings bad, burns, it can make you puke, your eyes burn and can't stay open, snot and sweat and puke everywhere.
And this is the stuff that DOESN'T kill you. We use it for "Practice".
Biological weapons. Mother Earth's own diseases modified or just purified and spread around to kill. Bio weapons are scary, there are only a few ways to test for them, and none are fast.
Anthrax
Botulism
Smallpox
Plague
Influenza
Nice!
Nuclear Weapons - To be honest, I personally belive that that backwards phuck DOESN'T have Nukes, but he could. And he COULD have sold what he knows or has. Small nukes, not really scary, but dangerous. Big nukes? God let's hope not.
Fact? US Policy is that if anyone uses ANY WMD on the US, be it Nuclear, Biological, OR Chemical, we respond with a nuke. You may have heard this being talked about on the news while the Anthrax mailings were going on. It's true.
The biggest problem we have here is the fact that IRAQ is doing little things to keep the public opinion on their side of the story. The media pumps it up and makes it look big, but is missing the fact that...
1. Saddam's crazy azz has USED Nerve Agents on his people and Iran.
2. His huge stockpiles of over 30,000 FILLED artillery shells, 20,000 bombs, and 120,000 gallons of KNOWN agents have "dissapeared". Just were "taken care of".
3. He hates the US, has helped out the terrorist regimes before, and using his WMD and terrorist connections, can mount crippling attacks on the US and it's intrests.
4. He's got a stupid smile.
Well you know what? We have the capability of STOPPING it this time. Of NOT letting something rediculous happen again. The only thing worse than ACTION is our INACTION at this point. Saddam has been given chance after chance, and is played out. If Bush didn't do this, what would everyone say when one of our cities get's nuked? When DC is covered in a chemical fog of VX?
These items kill in totally DESTRUCTIVE and VERY painfull manners. Saddam wants to keep them. He won't.
The US had a program going to develop Bio weapons and defences too them. That was dismantled around 5 years ago. Our chemical weapons program is now limited to defence and has been for over 10 years now. Most of the civil world has given up and dismantled their WMD programs, with only Nuclear devices still remaining in most countries. Maybe, someday, in our lives, we will be rid of that menace too. I never want to have my children, or grandchildren, wondering about WWIII, and what it was like to think about missles falling from the air to end all mankind.
Pearl Harbor was a horrible tragedy. 9/11 made us relearn some expensive and terrifying lessons. Let's not have to learn them again.
I've got many friends, and a ex-fiancee over in Kuwait right now. I wish them all the best of luck and to sit REALLY low in their foxholes. I wish all could come back alive.
They won't.
God bless freedom, and god bless the USA.
The US doesn't need ANYONE'S permission to invade or bomb anyone. Neither does any other country for that matter. Did you see Iraq go to the UN saying "Oh, BTW, we are invading Kuwait tomorrow." We tried to do the right thing and get some more folks to help out. They don't wanna? They can sit on the sidelines with the Frogs.
FVCK the French BTW. War loosing bastards.
Russia is so worried about self image now, they are scared to do anything that is not with public opinion. The Germans? *Sigh* I'm not going there.
Intresting info in the paper the other day though, Iraq only has about 1/3 of the combat power it had during the last war. Almost 95% of it's airforce can't even fly because of neglect. Out of it's tanks, it's only got about 50 of which could destroy a M1A2 Abrams tank, and the rest are very old. Iraq's NBC Defence equipment is some of the worst in thw world. If they DO use something during the conflict, they will cause more injuries to their OWN soldiers than ours.
I don't think he'll mind.
Seems like most of the rest of the world has forgotten a few things. A few things called Pearl Harbor and 9/11. These haven't happened elsewhere. Even if they did happen in another country, would any of them have the balls to take a serious step for their own people's safety like the US has?
No.
It's very easy for the public, people who've not seen what even the simplest of Chemical or Biological agents can do, to turn a blind eye, get caught up in 'catch phrases', and say "Yes, those are bad, but time will take care of it".
It hasn't.
12 years folks, 12 years of lies, deciet, mistrust, and then the ousting of the UN Inspectors. 12 years of "Oh, we'll find it..."
BS.
Folks, I've had the mis-privilage of working in the field of NBC (Nuclear, Biological and Chemical) Defence for the past 10 years. I've seen the pictures that are classified, I've seen the videos that were supposed to "Not exist", and I've done the calculations on effects of "WMD" on civilian populations.
You have no clue.
None.
First off...
Nerve Agents... Did you know that household RAID is a nerve agent? Basicly it's a very dosed down version of VX gas, and when used properly, it makes them freaking ants twitch and lose control, and die. Nerve agents, one drop properly spread, can kill 10 people. When it's an arosol, one pint could kill 1,000 people. Easy. Nerve agents, such as VX, absorb thru the skin or are breathed in. They block the body's control instructions to the muscles. You crap yourself, loose bladder control, fall on the ground, and then your involuntary muscle actions cease and your lungs stop sucking in air and your heart stops beating.
All of this takes about 2 - 5 minutes after exposure.
Now, just for Nerve Agents, VX in particluar, Iraq was known to have over 10,000 artillery shells loaded with the stuff. Also, approximately 20,000 gallons of the juice sitting in storage. They say they got rid of it in the late 90's, but there are no records.
Yeah right.
Ever read any Tom Clancy? Go pick up Rainbow 6. It's got some GREAT examples of plausible delivery methods for these things, killing millions. And all the terrorists need is ONE cropduster.
Blood Agents - These are nice. Basicly, if they get used, your screwed. The particulates in blood agents eat right thru the filters in our protective masks. Then, when inhaled, they coagulate your blood in your veins.
Sorta hard for the heart to pump scabs eh?
Blister Agents - (Mustard Gas) THIS stuff is one of my favorites! It gets on you, makes hideous blisters, and, if by chance, you DIDN'T inhale it (If you did, your lungs are full of blisters and puss, you die), you can't move. Moving will burst the blisters and anywhere the juice from the blisters goes, you'll get MORE BLISTERS! Keep in mind that Iraq has about 15,000 FILLED artillery shells and bombs of these too. Unaccounted for.
Choking Agents - (CS / Riot Gas) This is the least of your worries. It stings bad, burns, it can make you puke, your eyes burn and can't stay open, snot and sweat and puke everywhere.
And this is the stuff that DOESN'T kill you. We use it for "Practice".
Biological weapons. Mother Earth's own diseases modified or just purified and spread around to kill. Bio weapons are scary, there are only a few ways to test for them, and none are fast.
Anthrax
Botulism
Smallpox
Plague
Influenza
Nice!
Nuclear Weapons - To be honest, I personally belive that that backwards phuck DOESN'T have Nukes, but he could. And he COULD have sold what he knows or has. Small nukes, not really scary, but dangerous. Big nukes? God let's hope not.
Fact? US Policy is that if anyone uses ANY WMD on the US, be it Nuclear, Biological, OR Chemical, we respond with a nuke. You may have heard this being talked about on the news while the Anthrax mailings were going on. It's true.
The biggest problem we have here is the fact that IRAQ is doing little things to keep the public opinion on their side of the story. The media pumps it up and makes it look big, but is missing the fact that...
1. Saddam's crazy azz has USED Nerve Agents on his people and Iran.
2. His huge stockpiles of over 30,000 FILLED artillery shells, 20,000 bombs, and 120,000 gallons of KNOWN agents have "dissapeared". Just were "taken care of".
3. He hates the US, has helped out the terrorist regimes before, and using his WMD and terrorist connections, can mount crippling attacks on the US and it's intrests.
4. He's got a stupid smile.
Well you know what? We have the capability of STOPPING it this time. Of NOT letting something rediculous happen again. The only thing worse than ACTION is our INACTION at this point. Saddam has been given chance after chance, and is played out. If Bush didn't do this, what would everyone say when one of our cities get's nuked? When DC is covered in a chemical fog of VX?
These items kill in totally DESTRUCTIVE and VERY painfull manners. Saddam wants to keep them. He won't.
The US had a program going to develop Bio weapons and defences too them. That was dismantled around 5 years ago. Our chemical weapons program is now limited to defence and has been for over 10 years now. Most of the civil world has given up and dismantled their WMD programs, with only Nuclear devices still remaining in most countries. Maybe, someday, in our lives, we will be rid of that menace too. I never want to have my children, or grandchildren, wondering about WWIII, and what it was like to think about missles falling from the air to end all mankind.
Pearl Harbor was a horrible tragedy. 9/11 made us relearn some expensive and terrifying lessons. Let's not have to learn them again.
I've got many friends, and a ex-fiancee over in Kuwait right now. I wish them all the best of luck and to sit REALLY low in their foxholes. I wish all could come back alive.
They won't.
God bless freedom, and god bless the USA.
The US doesn't need ANYONE'S permission to invade or bomb anyone. Neither does any other country for that matter. Did you see Iraq go to the UN saying "Oh, BTW, we are invading Kuwait tomorrow." We tried to do the right thing and get some more folks to help out. They don't wanna? They can sit on the sidelines with the Frogs.
FVCK the French BTW. War loosing bastards.
Russia is so worried about self image now, they are scared to do anything that is not with public opinion. The Germans? *Sigh* I'm not going there.
Intresting info in the paper the other day though, Iraq only has about 1/3 of the combat power it had during the last war. Almost 95% of it's airforce can't even fly because of neglect. Out of it's tanks, it's only got about 50 of which could destroy a M1A2 Abrams tank, and the rest are very old. Iraq's NBC Defence equipment is some of the worst in thw world. If they DO use something during the conflict, they will cause more injuries to their OWN soldiers than ours.
I don't think he'll mind.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 34,642
Likes: 0
From: Los Lunas, New Mexico, USA.
Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon, 2004 Kia Sorento, 2010 Kia Soul
Sorry for the double post...
No tension at all!
QUOTE
Zaibatsu JVX:
RedZ, you still in Korea?
Yup. 4 more months mang. Love it here.RedZ, you still in Korea?
No tension at all!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 0
QUOTE
bryfx:
QUOTE
turbulence:
[qb]
[qb]
QUOTE
Originally posted by bryfx:
[qb]
:edit:
redzman, great post!!! i knew you'd come on here and shed some light on this.
[ March 18, 2003, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: turbulence ]
[qb]
QUOTE
Originally posted by AllBlackTibby
[qb]
you see, its like this,
dont put words into my mouth, your defense of bush is of no
interest to me.
no, bry, i get it. but if you'll notice, you also quoted blacktibby as saying "I put faith in them that they know what they are doing," so i thought that's where you were going. if my, or any, defense of bush is of no interest to you, don't make cheap comments about our president's administration or how it was or wasn't elected by us. you just leave yourself open to rebuttal. [qb]
you see, its like this,
QUOTE
I don't know much about the world or politics but I have this view.....the people in Wahington are elected by us.
but i don't suppose you get it.dont put words into my mouth, your defense of bush is of no
interest to me.
:edit:
redzman, great post!!! i knew you'd come on here and shed some light on this.
[ March 18, 2003, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: turbulence ]
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 566
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This is probably a thread that should be locked ASAP. I can already see it's going to get way out of hand and turn in to a nasty flame war.
This is a topic that many people will take personally and touch many nerves for many people.
Bry, I did't try to put words in your mouth, so please don't quote me as saying so.
Thanks.
This is a topic that many people will take personally and touch many nerves for many people.
Bry, I did't try to put words in your mouth, so please don't quote me as saying so.
Thanks.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
REDZ, I couldnt have shut up a lot of people any better than your last post. I have one question to you thoug...what about North Korea? I can't seem to forget that whole situation. Last thing that I think should happen is, the Iraq situation overshadowing the other fronts/issues at hand.
And btw...
Well put indeed Redz
And btw...
QUOTE
Pearl Harbor was a horrible tragedy. 9/11 made us relearn some expensive and terrifying lessons
Maybe once France and Germany and Russia have innocent people get hurt, then they would all for helping. Like the old saying goes, "its all fun and games until someone get hurt".QUOTE
Iraq only has about 1/3 of the combat power it had during the last war. Almost 95% of it's airforce can't even fly because of neglect. Out of it's tanks, it's only got about 50 of which could destroy a M1A2 Abrams tank, and the rest are very old.
This = Saddam's Fvcked.Well put indeed Redz
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what little difference our views on the war are gonna make... personally, Im against the war for my own reasons...
1) about 9/11 and pearl harbor ~ little evidence points to iraq as having anything to do with those attacks. Although they were first strikes, our policy as PEACEKEEPERS is to hold fire unless fired upon. Kinda ironic that we were the first to fire in "DESERT STORM" and we'll most likely be doing that this time around. Not sure what this war is going to be called... but check out the wordplay on Desert Storm and Peacekeepers-its all to manipulate the public view of the war with these pretty words. How public opinion would drastically fall if we called it operation "Fvck Iraq"
2) the comment about the gas prices... well... thx to our war in iraq, oil companies can charge extra to feed off the war paranoia. If we weren't there in the first place, there wouldn't be any paranoia.
3) Biological weapons - Who invented these weapons? You know the answer... We also test weapons on our own people as well - we just keep it on the down low: African Americans were experiemented on(forgot where it was), Native Americans and small pox blankets, one conspiracy back in the 80s? Gay people testing for Hepatitis all suddenly contract AIDS after the trip to the clinic.
4) Why are we still in Korea anyway? South Korea can defend its own pansy a$$. They have 10 times the economy and technology of the north koreans. AND - if we withdraw and the north does invade... our military can help out for whatever reason in a less than a week... It doesnt take months to cross the pacific ~ our military doesnt transport troops on sail boats.
*Well, I feel bad for both countries. Iraq is going down for sure. The US will suffer casualties not only to the military but to the civilians back home. Thanks to the ego of these two a-holes in power, no one is willing to back down for fear of losing face. Since the war is inevitable, lets just hope that the damages are minimal and Saddam is removed from power like he should have been in the first campaign. As for Bush, we'll just have to take our losses for electing this arrogant fool into office - not like Gore would have been any better*
1) about 9/11 and pearl harbor ~ little evidence points to iraq as having anything to do with those attacks. Although they were first strikes, our policy as PEACEKEEPERS is to hold fire unless fired upon. Kinda ironic that we were the first to fire in "DESERT STORM" and we'll most likely be doing that this time around. Not sure what this war is going to be called... but check out the wordplay on Desert Storm and Peacekeepers-its all to manipulate the public view of the war with these pretty words. How public opinion would drastically fall if we called it operation "Fvck Iraq"
2) the comment about the gas prices... well... thx to our war in iraq, oil companies can charge extra to feed off the war paranoia. If we weren't there in the first place, there wouldn't be any paranoia.
3) Biological weapons - Who invented these weapons? You know the answer... We also test weapons on our own people as well - we just keep it on the down low: African Americans were experiemented on(forgot where it was), Native Americans and small pox blankets, one conspiracy back in the 80s? Gay people testing for Hepatitis all suddenly contract AIDS after the trip to the clinic.
4) Why are we still in Korea anyway? South Korea can defend its own pansy a$$. They have 10 times the economy and technology of the north koreans. AND - if we withdraw and the north does invade... our military can help out for whatever reason in a less than a week... It doesnt take months to cross the pacific ~ our military doesnt transport troops on sail boats.
*Well, I feel bad for both countries. Iraq is going down for sure. The US will suffer casualties not only to the military but to the civilians back home. Thanks to the ego of these two a-holes in power, no one is willing to back down for fear of losing face. Since the war is inevitable, lets just hope that the damages are minimal and Saddam is removed from power like he should have been in the first campaign. As for Bush, we'll just have to take our losses for electing this arrogant fool into office - not like Gore would have been any better*
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nobody said anything about Iraq having something to do with Pearl Harbor or 9/11, it was a general statement of what has happened in the past and how we shouldn't wait for something like that to happen again, we should stop it before it happens.
Besides, the best defense is a good offence... smile.gif
lighten up
[ March 18, 2003, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Skitzo ]
Besides, the best defense is a good offence... smile.gif
lighten up
[ March 18, 2003, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Skitzo ]