Stocker

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSF..._terrorists.asp

(shrug) I told my wife not to be surprised at anything our government does since they put a Marxist in the White House. She will be surprised at this, I guarantee you.

Albuquerquefx

I'm really not sure I understand the complaint. Other than that article having a severe lean to it (which, apparently, is similar to your own; I guess I never knew), I don't see a problem with prisoners of war having very specific rights.

If we (the United States) want to portray ourselves as the gold-standard of humanitarianism, and freedom for all and oppression for none, then we should be expected to hold that same standard with prisoners regardless of their label. When you start making exucses why those rules shouldn't apply to someone based on an arbitrary label you apply to them (zOmg terrahist), we become hipocrites.

At a fundamental level, this is why the world (in general terms) hates us. We preach all day about freedom, equality, free will and fair treatment, and then we turn around and do exactly the opposite with anyone who we don't like (no matter the reason.)

I have a perfect example for you: that semi-crazy abortion doctor who was killed. The man who murdered him did it for fundamental religious reasons, and has promised additional attacks that are intended to cost additional lives. This de-facto fits the template of a terrorist, but becase he is an American citizen, he has received his miranda rights, will be held legally, tried publically by a group of citizen peers, and if convicted (very likely) he will be imprisoned in a government facility.

Why should a domestic terrorist be treated any differently?

Here's a thought -- if we weren't so two-faced, perhaps people would be less pissed at us overall? I think that's entirely possible; we've done some pretty outlandish shit in our country's recent history. We created the Iraq situation, we continue to feed the Isreali situation, we helped create the North Korean situation -- notice how all these f***ed up issues are of our own creation?

I think our current ways of "f*** people up because we hate them and preach freedom and equality to anyone else listening" needs to change. And regardless of the dumb propoganda spread by our current adminstration and the whole "change" blah-de-blah, this is something that needs to change.

likeyoumeanit

agreed red, thank you for saving me a lot of typing.

Bommello

Good job Red! Great response. Same thoughts here on the domestic terrorist.

Stocker

That's apples vs. Agent Orange Red and if you knew more about the topics at hand you would realize it.

This could be a book but I'll summarize:

They hate us ONLY because Mohammed invented a religion to eliminate people who didn't join him . . . his example is the Sunnah. His followers are Sunni. They kill infidels because it is a DUTY for a faithful muslim. This is not an item to be debated, unless the debaters are ignorant or disingenuous (at best). If you have time, go read Prophet of Doom, available as a free download and actually learn about Islam from its own 'holy' books.

The people we take on a battlefield in Afghanistan don't even qualify as Prisoners of War. They fight for no nation, in no uniform, for religious reasons. You grab somebody off a foreign battlefield and tell him he has a right to be SILENT, granted by no legal authority, in the face of an unknown threat from his pals? This is insanity.

Someone in the USA has rights laid out in the Constitution and lesser legal documents. The murderer will be treated as such. Domestic terrorists, even US citizens captured overseas, have a different set of rules because America is not the same thing as the rest of the world. Unless you disagree with the concept of a nation-state per se, I fail to see how this is even a question.

The world does not hate us. The press portrays it that way, because it is full of liberty-haters.

Israel is only a problem because NONE of their neighbors will allow them to exist.
Iraq is debatable, but that they were allowing torture/rape/murder of their citizenry, AND had a terrorist training camp with an airliner body for a set, in the iraqi desert, is not.

i8acobra

You need to get a real education about real Islam. Manifestos published on right-wing sites should not be considered educational material. Islam doesn't preach hatred. Radical Islamists do. Those people represent Islam about as much as white supremacists represent Christianity.

radu_rd2

The "mainstream" Islam religion does not require nor encourage 'eliminating people' of other religions. Of course there are extremists and extremist writings but to say that all 1 to 2 billion Islamic people believe it is their duty to kill 'infidels' is.. ignorant to say the least

And yes, whenever you don't like or want to accept something, it must be the "liberty-haters in the press" eyeroll.gif

There are dozens of gross stories of innocent people who went through hell, and frankly nothing can justify official policies that allow things like that to happen

And how exactly is the president a Marxist? Is it because he doesn't have the IQ of a monkey, or perhaps because he can speak in sentences made up by more than 2 words?

Albuquerquefx

As has been pointed out, that particular view is an incredibly biased, slanted, and incorrect view of Islam. Nevertheless, none of what you presented (even if it were true) invalidates what I said. When you start making excuses why any specific segment of the population should be treated differently, then you no longer stand for freedom or equality regardless of race, creed, or religion. These are founding principles of this nation; turning out back on those principles is tantamount to treason.


It's a war, because we called it a war. Thus, any prisoners we take should be from the opposition force, and those detained opposition forces are indeed prisoners of war by very definition. And again, they should expect the rights that we so proudly proclaim from the rooftops as our defining and unalienable right to every person on this planet.


Or perhaps because they're illegally soaking up space in palestinian land? And until incredibly recently, the US has entirely supported this?


Welp, since we're the folks who put in that government AND their leader, I think we're pretty responsible.

I'm not here to "apologize" for the current government, nor am I even here to endorse their general methodology. But this particular example is something that I cannot find fault with. And anyone who can find fault in this decision is, I believe, purposefully ignoring the founding principles of our once-fine nation. I'm hoping that decisions like this one might help us regain some of our former prestige that I feel, as a nation, we have lost due to strong-arm tactitcs.

What happened to America the benevolent? We don't need to be reclusive, but views that differ from ours should not be treated with hostility. When we begin to (again) demonstrate how our founding truths apply to everyone, and not just to those select few who we feel "deserve it".

SOCKS_old

when i saw this.. this is what came to mind.. doesnt really fit, but it was my first thought..

"Mr. Stocker, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

i agree with Red and others btw.

Bullfrog

What Islam is not..

http://perfectlyhuman.multiply.com/video/item/8

Watch the whole thing and then start researching it and you will find why we have been fighting this since the crusades...