Iago

I read this article this morning in The Dallas Morning News: Sunday Reader

It's a long one...print it out and tote it with you to the toilet. I thought it made some really interesting points on where society is going, and I wanted to share it with the rest of you and see what kinds of different opinions this sparks.

A few of mine:
1) I agree fully with the comment about the current collegiate mentality ("raised on soccer, organized play time, and achievement tests"). However, I don't agree with the quote from a college professor that says that college kids of the current (my) generation are overly willing to accept and conform to authority. I, for one, question authority a little more often that what's best for me, and most of my friends on-campus were the same way.

2) I agree that society is taking on too much sameness, but I don't think that it will take some as major and radical as a war to create a feeling of disillusionment which leads to new generations looking for self-definition. I think it can happen during peacetime, and that eventually people will look around and see that everything has become the same boring watered-down crap it was last week, and will look to find individuality there.

KrnQuietGuy

I don't think comformity in society is as much of a big of an issue as degrading morals and values are.

Homosexuality is now condoned and considered natural when it isn't in the slightest. If I say I think being gay is wrong suddenly I'm branded a close-minded idiot.

I mean, I don't think anyone should go out and kill gay people because that's also wrong but I just don't like how people are accepting gay marriage, gay adoptions, and the like.

And then even in heterosexuality, there's casual sex and now people think it's normal and okay.

Blah, whatever.

Iago

smile.gif
Glad I could post inspiration for your first post. Welcome to the forum.

Max_Kool

Ahhh...Democracy and freedom....looking at the past, you will always see that whenever a social organism (group of humans, for instance) is free to do as they please, they will almost always imitate each other. Conformity is a social by-product in any society. Perhaps I will read that article now. =-/

Random

It's not so much that they imitate eachother, is that society beats down those that don't conform.

We are trained as children to dress like the other kids, talk like the other kids, eat what they eat, and be just like them. To "fit in" to "have friends".

I am a non-conformist, and I am proud of my individuality. Some people just think of me as weird, or strange, and some just don't like me because of it. I don't care.

I have enough self confidence and self worth to do my on thing and to do what I think is right, not what society tells me is right.

Think back to your highschool days. There was the group of kids that didn't fit in anywhere else...so they accepted eachother and became their own group...and even withing that group, people changed and conformed to a standard.

Human beings fear what they do not understand, and human beings try to destroy or drive away what they fear or what they do not understand. Think about how often that group of "outcasts" got picked on, beat up, pranks played on..etc..etc..etc... Human nature in action.

Being "Gay" is no more wrong that being hetrosexual. People like to point to "nature" stating that there is no homosexuality in nature...but there is. There is even cross breed mating that happens in nature.

Just because you don't like/understand something, doesn't make it WRONG. You may have an opinon that pink cars are ugly, but they are not WRONG. Homosexuality is not WRONG, it is just different.

Homsexuals should have the same rights and ability to marry as Hetrosexual people under the law (Religious reasons is a whole nother can of worms).

If you were to "outlaw" homosexuality, that is a very slipperly slope you stand on. How long before they outlaw marriages of different races? Is a Black man marrying an Asian woman "WRONG"? Why is this "right" and "Acceptable" by the moral code and not Homosexual marriages? What about older women and younger men? Is that "WRONG" too? If so...who's moral standard do we go by? Yours? Your neighbors? Mine?

Homosexuality has been around since recorded time...yet people still thing it is "WRONG". I don't agree with a lot of things people do or don't do in this world, but as long as they do not hurt anyone, or themselves, I fail to see them as WRONG simply because I do not agree with them.

In fact, I don't agree with what you stated, but I don't thing you are WRONG. You simply have a different OPINION.

The things that make life worth living, and make living so wonderful is the VARIETY! The moment you start limited individual choice, you limit variety, and it is only a matter of time untill George Orwells 1984 comes to pass...albeit, a few years late.

skierd

Leave it to Random to needlessly complicate things.

That was a great book. Many people think it was about communism, but it was more about the Western nations, imo, who are as self indulgent and yet blind to the truth that they were no better or worse as the nations we are fighting. The governments in general, want servants, not intelligent human beings. The Bill of Rights was designed to protect us from this. However this nation, and others, have become content and lazy. They see Gun Control as a solution, not a threat to our rights. They see more government regulations as the way to make the world better. They see censorship of "offensive" music, clothing, activities, etc as just, when it violates our rights as citizens. Just my $2.50.

[ September 09, 2001: Message edited by: skierd ]

Max_Kool

I don't belive ther is really any such thing as a "non-conformist", Random. How could you be? You're a member of this car group. You're one of the most highly respected and knowledgable members of the "team". You're job (I don't know what you do), I'm sure you fit into the scheme of things that somehow creates the final product the company puts together. All of your friend; I'm sure they all have the same basic wants and needs as you. Hell, sometimes I relate to you.

Although you are an "strange, weird, individual", how would you get around this "american society" if you didn't have the same basic social skills as the rest of the organisms around you? Yes, you are an individual, but everyone around you, and yes, including you, all work towards an american goal. You are a part of the company they call "society". Just like me. Just like everyone that reads these messages.

Don't get me wrong, I'm don't don't easily accept all this either. You think you're strange and fvcked up? You should meet me. hehehee. I gauruntee <sp?> almost everyone here will say they're stranger and weirder than the next. The "conformist society" we live in today, don't have to have everyone wearing uniforms, and armbands. We do it unconciously. Humans, just like sheep or cattle, are herd animals(whether or not you'd like to think so). I don't see you living "off of the land", so to speak, nor being a hermit. Neither am I, nor do I think I am.

Yes, we are all "individual", but look at the bigger picture. We are all controlled. The "strangest" and "weirdest" of us are sometimes the most blind. Sometimes we're just the most understanding.

Max_Kool

btw, random.........I agree with the whole homosexual thing. Opinion's are like @$$holes....

Random

Max_Kool

There a difference between being a non-conformist and not having social skills or graces!

Being a non-conformist is about not being a sheep or cattle like the rest of society. It means thinking for yourself, using your own judgment, and making your own decisions.

In some small way what I do helps the Auto company I work for sell cars (I work for the sales division, not the manufacturing division), but trust me, I am a total non-conformist to the Japanese business structure I work in. So many people refuse to "buck the system" for various different reasons. But I often fight the "system" or "society" just to see what is right done. I have made many ememies this way, and some allies. I am known as "Random" sometimes at work too, because of this.

I REFUSE do to what the system/society tells me just because "that is the way it has always been", or "that is they way we do things". I always will fight like Don Quixote for what I believe is right, while others simply fight to preserve the "system/society".

That is why I consider myself a non-conformist. No, I don't live in a cave and not wear clothes, but I consider myself a non-conformist all the same.

If I were a conformist...I'd drive a Honda!

BTW...the above reasons is why I never entered the military. I would not do something just because a superior officer ordered me to. I would have to agree with the order to follow it out. I'd never make it out of basic training. Yet at the same time, I have the utmost respect for those individuals that DO enter the military, and serve our country. If ever called Upon, I would do the same, but I would make one lousy soldier.... wink.gif

Max_Kool

Think for ourselves? We only think with the knowledge that was given to us. With that in mind, I find it hard to totally and utterly think for "ourselves". Consiously, we might be "individual", but our sub-concious thinks for itself, and that is what makes us the same.

Arguing "conformity" and "non-conformity" is almost human nature. It's the age old story of the snake that must eat it's tail to grow. An endless circle. I wish I had your faith to believe I am different. But, when I stand alone and look at our society, you included, I see we're all the same. Your difference's at work, and in your social, although you may see them as "against to grain", but you're just making the system work smoother. You're trying to fix the "wrong" to insure the "right". Do you think that destroys your company? It only helps feed the fire.

The only way to change the system is to destroy the system. Not just yours, but everyones. And to do that, your must have the support of the millions that live off of the system. in the end, after you've broken and erased the system we all live in, you will come full circle to where you are now. As part of a system that makes everything work. Unless of course you take the path to anarchy, in which you would destroy yourself, or someone else will do it for you. Even in anarchy, there is the threat of conformity, for even when everyone does their own thing, things will become systematic. Things would slowly become what they are today.

In the small picture of our individual lives, YOU are different Random. YOU stand up for yourself, and YOU do what YOU think is "right". In the much larger painting, however, we are all part of the same puzzle.

I say, fvck the system, fvck the government, and fvck what we're taught......but tell me where you and me would be it they weren't here.

I'm different too. I work in a professional business. I am also a salesman. I have multi-colored hair. I have many piercing, and even more tattoo's. I listen to questionable music, and have even more questionable ideas. I am in that catagory of "different", that catagory of "radical", but I'm just a stereotype, as are you, and to be a stereotype means thats there are hundreds and thousands just like us. Although you're different than your neighbor, we still live in the same neighborhood.

A lousy soldier, I would also be, unless the army was of my own creation. But to have an army of "people like me", would only be another type of conformity, yes?

The snake eating it's own tail to grow.