Arizona moves to allow concealed guns in bars
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090628/ap_on_...us_guns_in_bars
QUOTE
PHOENIX – There was a time in the Wild West that cowboys had to check their guns before they could pull up a bar stool for a drink — rules that protected against the saloon gunfights that came to define the frontier era in places like Arizona.
But a bill moving through the Arizona Legislature has some bar owners fearful that the state is turning back the clock to the Old West. Lawmakers are considering a bill that would allow anyone with a concealed-weapons permit to bring a handgun into bars and restaurants serving alcohol.
The bill gives bars discretion to keep gun-toting patrons out, and anyone with a weapon would not be allowed to drink. But the bill has angered bar owners who believe booze and guns are a recipe for disaster.
"This might be one of the stupidest things that I have heard of," said Mike Nelson, who owns Pomeroy's bar in Phoenix and plans to post a sign on his front door outlawing guns in his bar as soon as possible. "Can you think of a single reason guns and alcohol should be intertwined?"
The bill is part of a nationwide push by the National Rifle Association.
Georgia passed a similar law in 2008, as did Tennessee earlier this year in becoming the 40th state to allow bar or restaurant patrons to carry guns.
"These laws are common sense," said NRA spokeswoman Rachel Parsons. "Restaurants are not immune to criminal activity. Law-abiding people — regardless of whether they're in restaurants, cars or homes — they should be able to protect themselves against criminal attack."
One of the bill's sponsors, Republican Rep. John Kavanagh, said it's about time Arizona passes such a law, and that the most important thing is that people carrying guns into bars aren't allowed to drink.
"You don't want intoxicated people with weapons, and this bill continues the prohibition against drinking and carrying," said Kavanagh, a retired police officer in New York and New Jersey. "What is the problem with having a gun in a delicatessen where someone is having a beer with their pastrami two tables away?"
The law would only apply to people with concealed-weapons permits because lawmakers say that type of gun owner has to pass a background check and take an eight-hour course to get their permits, and are therefore safer. More than 127,000 Arizonans have concealed-weapons permits, according to the Arizona Department of Public Safety.
Arizonans are also allowed to openly carry guns — on a belt or holster, for example. But those people would still not be allowed in bars or restaurants serving alcohol if they're armed.
The bill has been approved by the Senate and is now before the House; Republican Gov. Jan Brewer would still have to OK it.
But a bill moving through the Arizona Legislature has some bar owners fearful that the state is turning back the clock to the Old West. Lawmakers are considering a bill that would allow anyone with a concealed-weapons permit to bring a handgun into bars and restaurants serving alcohol.
The bill gives bars discretion to keep gun-toting patrons out, and anyone with a weapon would not be allowed to drink. But the bill has angered bar owners who believe booze and guns are a recipe for disaster.
"This might be one of the stupidest things that I have heard of," said Mike Nelson, who owns Pomeroy's bar in Phoenix and plans to post a sign on his front door outlawing guns in his bar as soon as possible. "Can you think of a single reason guns and alcohol should be intertwined?"
The bill is part of a nationwide push by the National Rifle Association.
Georgia passed a similar law in 2008, as did Tennessee earlier this year in becoming the 40th state to allow bar or restaurant patrons to carry guns.
"These laws are common sense," said NRA spokeswoman Rachel Parsons. "Restaurants are not immune to criminal activity. Law-abiding people — regardless of whether they're in restaurants, cars or homes — they should be able to protect themselves against criminal attack."
One of the bill's sponsors, Republican Rep. John Kavanagh, said it's about time Arizona passes such a law, and that the most important thing is that people carrying guns into bars aren't allowed to drink.
"You don't want intoxicated people with weapons, and this bill continues the prohibition against drinking and carrying," said Kavanagh, a retired police officer in New York and New Jersey. "What is the problem with having a gun in a delicatessen where someone is having a beer with their pastrami two tables away?"
The law would only apply to people with concealed-weapons permits because lawmakers say that type of gun owner has to pass a background check and take an eight-hour course to get their permits, and are therefore safer. More than 127,000 Arizonans have concealed-weapons permits, according to the Arizona Department of Public Safety.
Arizonans are also allowed to openly carry guns — on a belt or holster, for example. But those people would still not be allowed in bars or restaurants serving alcohol if they're armed.
The bill has been approved by the Senate and is now before the House; Republican Gov. Jan Brewer would still have to OK it.
That's why I hate the F*CK out of my state's gov't. I like guns, I like going out to the desert to shoot and I'm sure I'd enjoy hunting. never ONCE in my day to day life to I say to myself "I should probably take my gun with me just in case....."
I know there's a touchy area when it comes to carrying since if you don't always carry your gun with you, then it really doesn't do you any good. But why on earth would you sacrifice drinking for carrying your gun!?
I think this bill is intended for more remote towns and locales, we may be an open carry state but I've only seen one guy carrying publicly (at a coffee shop of all places, that's how you look like a douche bag). Phoenix is dodgy, but I don't think anyone will be bringing their gun into that guy's bar, not in the cities anyways.
I know there's a touchy area when it comes to carrying since if you don't always carry your gun with you, then it really doesn't do you any good. But why on earth would you sacrifice drinking for carrying your gun!?
I think this bill is intended for more remote towns and locales, we may be an open carry state but I've only seen one guy carrying publicly (at a coffee shop of all places, that's how you look like a douche bag). Phoenix is dodgy, but I don't think anyone will be bringing their gun into that guy's bar, not in the cities anyways.
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I think the article has a spin on it to focus on the bar aspect. It's a bill intended to not make it illegal to enter a restaurant with your concealed weapon based solely on the fact that the restaurant serves alcohol. Also, if someone's not drinking (and it's a criminal offense if you drink in AZ while concealed carrying) in a bar who cares if they're carrying in a bar vs. a grocery store or wherever? By entering a bar are you therefore forfeiting your right to effective self defense just because someone else might be drunk and try to assault you? Places like Applebees or anywhere that will serve you alcohol are currently off limits unless this bill passes. It's difficult to define a bar vs. restaurant or they probably would have left bars out of it. Would it be a restaurant if they serve nachos only? It would be tough to figure the line out in a way that makes sense and is consistent so they just covered all establishments.
Personally as a lot of you know I carry a pistol most of the time. I've had some really bad things happen before I carried a pistol when I really wished I had something to protect myself and my family with. I don't live in fear of going outside or anything, but it is comforting to know that if I need it it's right there on me.
In Washington it's illegal to carry in any place that the Liquor Control Board designates as 21 and up only. It's also not specifically against the law to consume alcohol while carrying a concealed weapon here. There are places, such as bar and grills that I like to go and eat when I'm not intending on drinking. As long as I don't go into the bar area I can carry, and even drink. It's a little odd. I would prefer Arizona's proposed method honestly, I'd rather have sober armed guys in bars than drunk armed guys in a restaurant. Also, open carry is legal here too and it's not illegal to open carry in a bar. Unless you're in the middle of nowhere though open carry is not worth the attention you get. You won't get arrested, but the cops get dozens of "guy with a gun" calls so the po-po come and talk to you trying to get you to put it away. I had issues with that when I've come out onto a road when hunting and walked back along the road.
Personally as a lot of you know I carry a pistol most of the time. I've had some really bad things happen before I carried a pistol when I really wished I had something to protect myself and my family with. I don't live in fear of going outside or anything, but it is comforting to know that if I need it it's right there on me.
In Washington it's illegal to carry in any place that the Liquor Control Board designates as 21 and up only. It's also not specifically against the law to consume alcohol while carrying a concealed weapon here. There are places, such as bar and grills that I like to go and eat when I'm not intending on drinking. As long as I don't go into the bar area I can carry, and even drink. It's a little odd. I would prefer Arizona's proposed method honestly, I'd rather have sober armed guys in bars than drunk armed guys in a restaurant. Also, open carry is legal here too and it's not illegal to open carry in a bar. Unless you're in the middle of nowhere though open carry is not worth the attention you get. You won't get arrested, but the cops get dozens of "guy with a gun" calls so the po-po come and talk to you trying to get you to put it away. I had issues with that when I've come out onto a road when hunting and walked back along the road.
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Probably not. People carry concealed pistols all over already, including in bars. The guys with permits are far less likely to cause problems than the guy carrying without a permit.
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I'm saying not everyone carrying has a permit or honors the rules. Plenty of people carry when and where they're not supposed to already. I use to pack up to 3 pistols at once in high school. There's so much wrong with that picture it doesn't require explanation.
And it would be illegal for the guy packing legally to drink even one drink. If you're packing legally you're a lot more likely to try to follow the rules.
And it would be illegal for the guy packing legally to drink even one drink. If you're packing legally you're a lot more likely to try to follow the rules.
i've heard from guys that they will hardly ever practice open carry and always chose to conceal. as you mentioned, not worth the hassle and police calls, but also, if a bad guy sees you have a gun, you've just made yourself the first target.



