Re: Lean
 

Well, we all know that at approx 280-290whp our MAF sensor will max out and will not let us gain anymore power, but would we have enough fuel to support lets say another 70shot of nitrous? The engine should of course be build to support that power, but what if it has new pistons and stuff, and you are maxing out your MAF s. and decide to spray, would that be possible?

Any comments and suggestions would be appreciated smile.gif

Re: Perfect Turbo for Tiburons...cooming soon!!
 

looks like you just WANT to lean out and go boom... because i think that would happen. your MAF wouldnt extend the injector pulse width as needed for the extra air because its already max out, thus causing you to lean out, and you REALLY dont want to lean out with nitrous

Re: Quality of cc ram air hood on ImportShark.com?
 

Don't direct port kits also spray fuel? Or is that only a wet kit? Either way, if you are spraying nitrous and fuel, would you still lean out?

Re: My aliminum crank pulley
 

well true, wet kits do spray fuel. im not sure how effective that little bit of extra fuel is when you are maxed out on your MAF because in a wet kit the fuel isnt evenly distributed into each cylinder so all you have to do is go lean in one cylinder and your engine is hosed. Direct port may worth though

Re: FS: Stock 01 Tib Parts
 

of course I was talking about wet kit. and my question was, will there be enough fuel to make sure that i wont be running lean?

Re: Winterizing ur car
 

like i said in a wet kit the fuel isnt evenly distributed through all cylinders... bad idea... direct port might work

Re: 180 Km Top Speed???
 

hmmm, its kinda like 5th injector. many people were able to get it up to 13PSI, so it can't be that uneven. I just don't wanna deal with direct port.

And look, there is a bunch of people that have sprayed 60-70shots, and no one fried their pistons. If it was so bad then no one would be able to spray so much. I dont think the question is about how uneven is will be, the question is will the solenoid and the fuel lines give me enough fuel not to run lean?

Re: Nitrous and turbo question.
 

cant remember what they are called but the thing you put in the shark nozzle that determines how much fuel or nitrous that is sprayed into the system, you could just put a big one on the fuel side... and try that but i dunno.. there is only 1 way to really find out smile.gif

more power too ya, id like to see you break 300whp with boost and nitrous, that what i know i can do it.

Re: Quality of cc ram air hood on ImportShark.com?
 

I will try smile.gif and I just wanted to know if anyone has done it and if anyone has some thoughts about it smile.gif

Re: 2004 ABQ BBQ - Who's Coming? (ABQ = Albuquerque New Mexi
 

there are few people who have even maxed our MAFs out.. i doubt any of them run nitrous as well

Re: Nitrous and turbo question.
 

I guess I will have to be the 1st one to find out. I will get wideband so I can see my a/f ratios

Re: Carbon fiber hood weigh difference?
 

Dweet, those things are jets.

Nitrous is a complete fuel/air delivery system. It will add fuel and air on its own and the MAF will never see that extra air (nitrous) being sent. Therefore, if you are maxed out with the MAF, you can still add air/fuel on top of it with a wet system.

RABBIT!
 

would there be enough fuel that I can add after MAF is maxed out, or is it all just up to my setup? I think if I will have a walboro255 I should be fine smile.gif

Re: grinding in second
 

i would only use a direct port on this setup

go 2 nozzles richer and dyno it

Re: Carbon fiber hood weigh difference?
 

you think regural wet setup might cause some damage?

Re: Finally picked a goal....
 

I don't think that anything but direct port is reccomended with Nitrous.

Re: RABBIT!
 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JonGTR)</div><div class='quotemain'>Dweet, those things are jets.

Nitrous is a complete fuel/air delivery system. It will add fuel and air on its own and the MAF will never see that extra air (nitrous) being sent. Therefore, if you are maxed out with the MAF, you can still add air/fuel on top of it with a wet system.</div>
yeah jets.. i remembered that a little after i posted, just had a brainfart, but I agree with jaws the only way id do this is direct port or else you run the risk of leaning out a cylinder because a regular NX wet kit doesnt evenly distribute the fuel into each cylinder

Re: rear bumpers
 

so how do people add 75hp safely with their wet kits and do not blow up?

Re: Carbon fiber hood weigh difference?
 

I think cause the MAF can still adjust. When it's maxed out I think it's maxed out. It is incapable of guessing the amount of fuel so it would just send no fuel IMO

Re: Finally picked a goal....
 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OdessitPashka)</div><div class='quotemain'>so how do people add 75hp safely with their wet kits and do not blow up?</div>
the O2 sensor can sense how lean your car is running and the ECU can add fuel accordingly. The fuel solenoid is just a crutch or safety net if you want to call it.

Re: RABBIT!
 

I meant to ask about uneven distribution of fuel and nitrous as many of you stated. If it's safe to add 75hp to stock motor and run it safely, I do not see how it's gonna be different to add the same 75hp to a built engine... Correct me if I'm wrong

Re: rear bumpers
 

because the air thats coming in off of the turbo its compressed so it reacts to nitrous differently than NA air. It makes a 75 shot more like a 125 shot. Read that on HP awhile ago. But thats the information Im going by.

So since the nitrous is added AFTER the air passes through the MAF there is no way the MAF can compesnate for the nitrous. The only possible way it can be compensated is by the O2 sensor reading. However the O2 sensor reads the exhaust gas so its reading the fuel mixture after the combustion which is a bad time to do it. If you get what Im saying

Re: rear bumpers
 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dweet)</div><div class='quotemain'>However the O2 sensor reads the exhaust gas so its reading the fuel mixture after the combustion which is a bad time to do it. If you get what Im saying</div>

I concur. LOL

Re: aftermarket MAF + SAFC
 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dweet)</div><div class='quotemain'>and the ECU can add fuel accordingly. The fuel solenoid is just a crutch or safety net if you want to call it.</div>

OMGZORZ Dweet!!!! 8O

1. The fuel solenoid adds fuel to supply the oxygen you just added with the nitrous. It's NOT a crutch, it's a direct supplement of fuel in proportion to the nitrous.

2. Your ECU doesn't know WTF is going on when you are spraying. It's not reading ANYTHING at this time. It doesn't add anymore fuel regardless of how much nitrous you are spraying. The reason this is, is because the ECU shuts down the o2 sensors and goes into closed loop mode with a preset map during WOT.

3. If you don't add fuel with the properly jetted solenoid, you WILL go boom!!! No crutches, no safety nets. BOOM!!!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (silvertibbs)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>However the O2 sensor reads the exhaust gas so its reading the fuel mixture after the combustion which is a bad time to do it. If you get what Im saying</div>I concur. LOL </div>
I hope not. lol

Re: Nitrous and turbo question.
 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JonGTR)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dweet)</div><div class='quotemain'>and the ECU can add fuel accordingly. The fuel solenoid is just a crutch or safety net if you want to call it.</div>

OMGZORZ Dweet!!!! 8O

1. The fuel solenoid adds fuel to supply the oxygen you just added with the nitrous. It's NOT a crutch, it's a direct supplement of fuel in proportion to the nitrous.

2. Your ECU doesn't know WTF is going on when you are spraying. It's not reading ANYTHING at this time. It doesn't add anymore fuel regardless of how much nitrous you are spraying. The reason this is, is because the ECU shuts down the o2 sensors and goes into closed loop mode with a preset map during WOT.

3. If you don't add fuel with the properly jetted solenoid, you WILL go boom!!! No crutches, no safety nets. BOOM!!!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (silvertibbs)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>However the O2 sensor reads the exhaust gas so its reading the fuel mixture after the combustion which is a bad time to do it. If you get what Im saying</div>I concur. LOL </div>
I hope not. lol</div>
1. id have to disagree with a standard wet kit. DP may be different. The reason I say its a crutch is because dry kits exist and work without it. Its like the 5th injector in the alpine kit. Its just a crutch to say here is a little more fuel so we dont lean out. DP on the other hand is like doing it the right way. You evenly distribute the fuel in each cylinder for the proper stoichiometric a/f ratio.

2. I'll have to look into that one.

3. Apparently you didnt read my post correctly. I said you might avoid detonation by adding a bigger fuel jet. Because when you shoot nitrous into already compressed air you get a bigger shot than it is rated on an NA engine. So you'd have to add even more fuel to compensate. Im not saying add less fuel.

Re: FS: Angel Eyes and lighting, Last Chance Sale of haloz.
 

Jon confused me now. So fuel will not be added no matter what you do after you max out your MAF sensor?

Re: *Updated* GB: New Zekon kit for First Gen Tib.
 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dweet)</div><div class='quotemain'>1. id have to disagree with a standard wet kit. DP may be different.</div>
No. Direct port and single foggers are both the same in that they supply fuel and nitrous through the same nozzle and both require the extra fuel as I said before.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The reason I say its a crutch is because dry kits exist and work without it.</div>
You don't have a fuel solenoid in a dry kit because it adds fuel a different way, through the injectors via increased fuel pressure.
Once again, there is EXTRA fuel being supplied without the ECU's knowledge about it or the ability to control it.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Its like the 5th injector in the alpine kit. Its just a crutch to say here is a little more fuel so we dont lean out.</div>
No, it's there to supply more fuel because the stockers can't handle it during WOT. It's also cheaper than buying 4 more injectors. It's not there "just in case". It has a purpose and is always being used. If you remove it, you will go boom!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>DP on the other hand is like doing it the right way. You evenly distribute the fuel in each cylinder for the proper stoichiometric a/f ratio.</div>
...Which you will never get without the fuel solenoid or increased fuel pressure, which your ECU is NOT gonna do for you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>2. I'll have to look into that one.</div>
Please do! All of this will make much better sense afterwards.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>3. Apparently you didnt read my post correctly. I said you might avoid detonation by adding a bigger fuel jet. Because when you shoot nitrous into already compressed air you get a bigger shot than it is rated on an NA engine. So you'd have to add even more fuel to compensate. Im not saying add less fuel.</div>
I have been reading it correctly and you're still wrong. Compressed air has nothing to do with it. The reason why nitrous reacts better in a FI motor is because the charge air is hot from the turbo. Once the nitrous cools the air, it makes it denser and therefore more oxygen rich.


All of your posts have pointed out that the fuel solenoid doesn't supply the fuel and that the ECU does it for you automatically. It doesn't and never will. It can't because it lost its ability to read the a/f during WOT.

Re: rear bumpers
 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OdessitPashka)</div><div class='quotemain'>Jon confused me now. So fuel will not be added no matter what you do after you max out your MAF sensor?</div>
Not by the ECU. The ECU, intake air, and injectors do their own thing. The Nitrous and Fuel solenoid are a totally different intake system. The ECU does not, nor ever will, know about it.

Re: Nitrous and turbo question.
 

So basically it's perfectly safe to spray after you reached the limit with your maf, right?

Thanks Jon.

PS, fix your double post smile.gif

Re: VHR Throwout Bearing -need one ASAP EMERGENCY
 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OdessitPashka)</div><div class='quotemain'>So basically it's perfectly safe to spray after you reached the limit with your maf, right?

Thanks Jon.

PS, fix your double post smile.gif</div>

As long as your motor is built for it. I'll probably do it too since I already have both hooked up. (DP/TC)

What double post?

Re: FS: Cross Drilled front rotors for 97-98 Tiburon (captiv
 

thanks for great explanation smile.gif

let us know how it goes smile.gif


double post above mine that I made before, you quoted dweet and answered his questions, and then you made another post and quoted me smile.gif

Re: FX model vs SE model
 

I have a hard enough time seperating quotes with one person. lol.gif

Re: Carbon fiber hood weigh difference?
 

i think we are miscommunicating jon.. i get what you are saying but we are really saying the same thing... oh well i give up lol

Re: Need assistance with my SAFCII
 

cant believe you gave up arguin! lol

either way I will be spraying with my turbo!!!

Re: Possible Vice President?
 

well i cant talk properly, i know what i mean i just cant make it into words... im like Bush, a pure genious but cant talk right

Re: Glass packed muffler question
 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dweet)</div><div class='quotemain'>well i cant talk properly, i know what i mean i just cant make it into words... im like Bush,</div>

You got that right buddy... lol.gif

Take a good night rest and look at the topic tomorrow..

I was starting to think you were on something typing. tongue.gif

Back to the original question.

You could possibly get away with a 75 shot of nitrous with about 270-290whp of boost in the car already. You do raise the chances of you detonating though, so keep that in mind. Yes the fifth injector has worked, but like everyone says... its not perfect. Also, compression is a bit lower, so you do have a larger margin for error.

I would strongly suggest you save up some extra cash and get a direct port if you insist on using nitrous with boost in that manner.

Other options:
Use nitrous on the intercooler... people have seen some pretty good gains spraying nitrous to freeze up the intercooler and lower the compressed air temps going into the engine. Not sure how much you will gain, as this is something i never ventured to... although im considering it in the future.

Another option... ditch nitrous all together and just go with more boost.. its cheaper, and easier to tune.

If you are absolutely hard headed on making this work... MAke sure to go 2-3 jets higher on the wet kit. To tell you the truth, i would go with 5 jet increase (on the rich side). Thats how scary it might be...
Tune it on a dyno...

You would want to be around 10-11 on the a/f side... just to be safe. Other might say 12 is fine.. which it could be..
I guess ive just blown up too many times to do high risk shit like that anymore (100 shot tongue.gif )

Oh well good luck man

Re: Boostin a 97 tibbie
 

thanks Jaws smile.gif

needed input from someone like you to clarify some things smile.gif

it will be tuned and the engine will be ready for the power smile.gif
You say, raise boost, but once you max our MAFs, you need to get stand alone to raise boost, and I'm trying to avoid that, at least for now.

Will take into consideration everything you said smile.gif but for now I need to get all of my parts....( hey Tim...) and put the damn turbo into my car and then talk about maxin my MAF out.

Thanks again, appreciate your help smile.gif