forced induction, and direct port nitrous
03-21-2002, 12:32 PM
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forced induction, and direct port nitrous
yeah... i know no ones's done it, but im interested so i figured id start a topic on it. ive got my turbo setup, all of it except for the intercooler anyway, but im already thinking ahead. i plan on running around 8PSI for starters, and hope to move up to 14PSI after a while. granted im going to have to replace my rods, pistons, have some head work done... etc, but i also want to run nitrous. questions that come to mind are, can the stock crank handle this? am i going to have to have a custom fuel rail made? do i need to think about injectors larger than id need for just a turbo running 15PSI, would the stock fuel line be able to move enough fuel or would i need a larger diameter/higher pressure line? would working with something like the Unichip be enough, or would a haltech computer be needed...
if youve got thoughts on this id like to hear them... and if youve got ideas for my engine throw them my way; im always looking for something else to do tongue.gif
if youve got thoughts on this id like to hear them... and if youve got ideas for my engine throw them my way; im always looking for something else to do tongue.gif
03-21-2002, 12:46 PM
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Joel and I have decided on my project that nitrous will be used after my car reaches the 400WHP mark.
We figure that, with the buildup I'm doing, the engine is good for around 600WHP -- give or take. The turbo setup I'm building will only be good for up to 400WHP in full-race trim (118 octane leaded gas, special Haltech map just for that occasion)
So when we're fairly confident that the engine and turbo alone cannot make any more power (safely), we will go to a direct-port setup of approximately 150HP.
With the turbo having to run at the very top edge of it's thermal efficiency, it will be making a lot of heat if/when it touches 400WHP. So a 150 shot of direct-port nitrous will likely end up making MORE power because of the cooling.
However...
We're talking about $3500 in engine work (not including labor) and we're also talking about a $1200+ standalone engine mangement system. This isn't a cheap endeavor. If you're planning to run this kind of power, you had better plan on a $10K engine and transmission buildup to go along with it.
But to answer your question -- with proper rods and pistons and attention to detail, the stock crank and block is definately capable of dealing with the power.
We figure that, with the buildup I'm doing, the engine is good for around 600WHP -- give or take. The turbo setup I'm building will only be good for up to 400WHP in full-race trim (118 octane leaded gas, special Haltech map just for that occasion)
So when we're fairly confident that the engine and turbo alone cannot make any more power (safely), we will go to a direct-port setup of approximately 150HP.
With the turbo having to run at the very top edge of it's thermal efficiency, it will be making a lot of heat if/when it touches 400WHP. So a 150 shot of direct-port nitrous will likely end up making MORE power because of the cooling.
However...
We're talking about $3500 in engine work (not including labor) and we're also talking about a $1200+ standalone engine mangement system. This isn't a cheap endeavor. If you're planning to run this kind of power, you had better plan on a $10K engine and transmission buildup to go along with it.
But to answer your question -- with proper rods and pistons and attention to detail, the stock crank and block is definately capable of dealing with the power.
03-22-2002, 04:49 AM
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OK RED. I have a build up question for ya.
I went out and got a second job just to do this.
After all the regualr mods (I/H/E)
I want to go fro broke.
I think Im looking at like maby 12 to 15K for this (thus the second job and 3 years of my second job earnings)
I am aiming for 500 Crank HP.
The Car is the v6GT Auto.
I want to know if this sounds right. to be able to take that much horse
Rebuilt Tranny
beefed up fuelsystem
New pistons, rods, crank, cams,injectors,
port/n/polish
Basicly gut the engine and have it rebuilt.
NEW ECU from haltek and of course all the tunning
that it needs.
I plan on adding either one or two turbo's pushing 30 PSI with water based intercooler.
I know this is gonna be Expensive (already cleared it with the better half) and It will take some time to get there.
But I want to know if I can do it.
I will be having the tranny rebuilt in the next 6 months to put a NO2 shot in but once I go turbo I won't really want to run NO2.
Thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanx
I went out and got a second job just to do this.
After all the regualr mods (I/H/E)
I want to go fro broke.
I think Im looking at like maby 12 to 15K for this (thus the second job and 3 years of my second job earnings)
I am aiming for 500 Crank HP.
The Car is the v6GT Auto.
I want to know if this sounds right. to be able to take that much horse
Rebuilt Tranny
beefed up fuelsystem
New pistons, rods, crank, cams,injectors,
port/n/polish
Basicly gut the engine and have it rebuilt.
NEW ECU from haltek and of course all the tunning
that it needs.
I plan on adding either one or two turbo's pushing 30 PSI with water based intercooler.
I know this is gonna be Expensive (already cleared it with the better half) and It will take some time to get there.
But I want to know if I can do it.
I will be having the tranny rebuilt in the next 6 months to put a NO2 shot in but once I go turbo I won't really want to run NO2.
Thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanx
03-22-2002, 04:55 AM
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thankies fer hijackin mah post Mr. Meester! eek! 
wink 
500 crank HP is definately possible, expecially with the V-6. im not familiar with the engine, but yep... 500 HP is dooable IMHO.
wink 500 crank HP is definately possible, expecially with the V-6. im not familiar with the engine, but yep... 500 HP is dooable IMHO.
03-22-2002, 05:03 AM
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rolleyes.gif Sorry. LOL just rummors of the weak crank in the GT. OH and to clairfi (some one will hit me on this) the tranny will be stronger AND NOT TAKING THE NO2.
LOL Go fatser just shot the Nitrous into the tranny Screw the engine
The two big things Im worried about are the Block itself. The Crank and the Bearings on the crank. Everything else will be gutted but If I can keep the crank and just change ther bearings that would be nice. but If I have to rip it out then so be it..
And red can start the Im not rich but I have a 400+ HP Tib club. Not just the President but a member as well.
LOL Go fatser just shot the Nitrous into the tranny Screw the engine
The two big things Im worried about are the Block itself. The Crank and the Bearings on the crank. Everything else will be gutted but If I can keep the crank and just change ther bearings that would be nice. but If I have to rip it out then so be it..
And red can start the Im not rich but I have a 400+ HP Tib club. Not just the President but a member as well.
03-22-2002, 05:11 AM
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You'll never get 500 crank horsepower out of the V6. Ever. If you do even a very simple glance over the topics that are here at TeamSR, you'll easily find out why.
If you truly want the V6 to hit 500+ horsepower, you're looking at a $200,000 project easily. No, I'm not kidding. Having a new block and a new crankshaft custom-forged is not a cheap process.
-Red-
If you truly want the V6 to hit 500+ horsepower, you're looking at a $200,000 project easily. No, I'm not kidding. Having a new block and a new crankshaft custom-forged is not a cheap process.
-Red-
03-22-2002, 05:21 AM
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sounds like you are going totally radical guys...
i want you all to know, that there is a shop here in south florda (south florda performance) that does similar build-ups as what you all are planning on honda's and such...
i know that having an iron block is a BIG advantage over aluminum, specially when you get over 300 whp.. specially anything over 400 !!
here is what these guys do to their hondus to push out 350+ whp with a single turbo / intercooler setup...
1. stronger rods.
2. forged pistons, lower compression.
3. block-guard (this is what keeps their wimpy blocks from cracking in half)..
4. stronger head gaskets...
5. monster drag turbo..
6. MONSTER huge intercooler that takes up the entire front grille area...
7. racing in-tank fuel pump..
8. racing clutch, usually the 3 or 4 puck variety.
9.a the fuel systems go in various ways.. the cheep and crappy way is via the fmu method..
9.b the good way is to just have huge injectors, and an after market ecu , and dyno tuning the car using a wide band o/2..
these cars typically go through a set of spark plugs every month.. because they have to run extra rich to prevent detonation...
also, these guys pay well over 10k for all of these mods including installation and labor.
one thing i have noticed, their transmissions remain stock... no problems unless they just dont know how to shift...
and 10.. cat-back exhaust system....
SHEESH. with those mods, at 15 psi, they run 12's... and with slightly more, 17-20 psi they run high 11's.
[ March 22, 2002, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: FordFasteR ]
i want you all to know, that there is a shop here in south florda (south florda performance) that does similar build-ups as what you all are planning on honda's and such...
i know that having an iron block is a BIG advantage over aluminum, specially when you get over 300 whp.. specially anything over 400 !!
here is what these guys do to their hondus to push out 350+ whp with a single turbo / intercooler setup...
1. stronger rods.
2. forged pistons, lower compression.
3. block-guard (this is what keeps their wimpy blocks from cracking in half)..
4. stronger head gaskets...
5. monster drag turbo..
6. MONSTER huge intercooler that takes up the entire front grille area...
7. racing in-tank fuel pump..
8. racing clutch, usually the 3 or 4 puck variety.
9.a the fuel systems go in various ways.. the cheep and crappy way is via the fmu method..
9.b the good way is to just have huge injectors, and an after market ecu , and dyno tuning the car using a wide band o/2..
these cars typically go through a set of spark plugs every month.. because they have to run extra rich to prevent detonation...
also, these guys pay well over 10k for all of these mods including installation and labor.
one thing i have noticed, their transmissions remain stock... no problems unless they just dont know how to shift...
and 10.. cat-back exhaust system....
SHEESH. with those mods, at 15 psi, they run 12's... and with slightly more, 17-20 psi they run high 11's.
[ March 22, 2002, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: FordFasteR ]
03-22-2002, 05:31 AM
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QUOTE
Dixiflatline:
Damn looks like 250 for me then.
Ill just buld it up then buy another car to be the 500Plus one.
woos spendthe 200k take one for the team, seriously though if u wanted u can just drop a beta engine in ur tib and make that kind of power
Damn looks like 250 for me then.
Ill just buld it up then buy another car to be the 500Plus one.