Hello, i was wondering if someone here could help me. I just purchased a solo baric 12 inch kicker for my car and im getting a kicker zr600 amp for it. One of my friends told me to get a cap for it so my lights wouldnt dim, etc. and my other friend told me to forget about it because it f#%$s up the electronics. What do you guys think?

 

3 words "GET THE CAP". What the cap does is stiffen the power it keeps a reserve of power on hand for the amp, when the amp draws power it sucks it from the cap and then recharges almost instantly from the power supply lead from the battery keeping the amp from drawing power from the other accesories in the car. It will in no way damage the electronics of the car or your systems components so don't worry about that. In reality it does the opposite it keep damage from accuring to your alternator from over working to supply the amp and keeps your battery from being drained. You can acctually put in a circuit breaker and run your system just of the cap and not even incorperate the rest of the electrical system of your car. And just so you know although it will help and serves as great protection for the electrical system your lights still might dim a tad the only way to get completly around that is to put in a circuit breaker like stated before.

 

Jaws99 your correct. But how many amps does this amp pull. I mean some amps pull very little and won't dim the lights at all. So a cap would be a waste of money. But then again the amp may pull a lot and in this case it would be good to get a cap. You need to find out of many watts you will be pushing as close as possible. Then get the cap to match that wattage. Like Jaws said even with a cap the lights still may dim. I had a 96 full size with 6 10's dvc RF speakers, two bd1000, two punch 100z2, and two 1 farad caps and the lights still dim and you could watch the voltage gauge drop while you were at highway speeds. But the amp I have now is a punch 250a2 running in two ohmn bridged setup on two Toby Ranger 10s and it doesn't dim the lights at all.

 

Well, the ZR600 is rated at 600W X1 RMS into 4 ohms. In typical class AB configuration, assuming reasonable values for efficiency, you should be in the neighborhood of about 60A current draw.

Unless you are willing to put in an upgraded alternator, a stiffening capacitor is DEFINITELY a good idea.

It will not screw up the electronics, if done properly, and the benefits in sound are well worth the cost. I have a 1.2F stiffening capacitor as part of my system. If anything, the DC transients created by the high and varying load of the amplifiers will screw up the electronics of the car FAR worse than the addition of a capacitor. The capacitor will actually help regulate the electrical system, and will not only buffer and "stiffen" the power supply to the amplifier, it will help buffer the electrical system from the demands of the amplifier. It makes the system easier on the battery and alternator.

Before I added the 1.2F cap to my system, I was going through a battery a year. My current battery has lasted 2 years now, and I'm pretty sure it'll make it through the winter.

In addition to the bass enhancement that the cap will provide, you should get better life from the light bulbs in your car, better battery life, and it can even make cold starting a little bit better.

Note that your electrical system will be DRAINING while your system is cranked, even if the engine is running. The problem gets even worse if you have an additional amp for the front speakers. It's probably a good idea to turn the system down to low listening levels about 10-15 minutes before you park the car, to give the battery a chance to charge up. (It's also a good idea to never turn it up really loud near your home anyway -- Theives won't break in to steal a system that they don't know is there.)

Anyway, to recap a point earlier in the thread:



Yeah, that summs it up nicely.

[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: Dan ]

 

I just added a 1F Rockford punch cap this weekend. I have been running an Infinity Kappa 255a 5ch amp driving 4 speakers (50w RMS) and one 12" sub (200w RMS) for about a month. The sound is much tighter now with the cap.

 

Holey Current draw Bat Man!!!! Get the cap!!!

 

I disagree. Caps are good for sound and that is about it. When your amplifier draws that 60amps of current, even a 1 farad cap only holds about 17 amps of current, hardly worth $150, however if you do want a tighter sound get a cap but I've had multiple caps before and they did not help at all for dimming headlights.

 

How can you dissagree with getting a cap?????? Even if the cap only held 1 watt that is one less watt the battery has to kick out and one less watt the alternator has to work harder to produce. Let me sum all of this up in football terminalagy, Say you have Marshall Faulk in the backfeild (he represents the amp) and you had a full offensive line (representing the battery) but you had no fullback (he represent the cap) you would still get productive yards from Marshall but his productivity would go up by incorperating a fullback. This is the same thery for your sound system. And no mattery how big the amp (5 watts - 5,000 watts) a cap is a good idea not a bad one and worth the $150 you just have to get the right size cap (farad wise), if you go bigger than what you need that's ok it will give you the ability to add on and not having to purchase another cap and will in no way restrict power to a smaller amplifier. Sorry but I forgot something, The most important part of getting a cap is protection, The battery and alternator are not ment to produce power needed to run a audio system so if some of you think ther a waste that is your own opinion and I respect that but I will be watching the board waiting to see the posts "I just spent $300 for a new alt and can't understand why it went bad sad.gif ) or "My battery won't hold a charge after only having it a year, could someone tell me why ) And I will reply to them by saying "you should have spent a $150 for the cap"

 

You state that they're good for sound. But you obviously don't understand the reason why.

A capacitor is basically a filter. It works to regulate the DC input into yout amplifiers power supply. It is not an auxiliary power source, and the battery and the alternator still have to supply the current that the amplifier uses.

But it is the capacitor's capabilities as a filter that make it so useful. When I mentioned about 60A draw, that's at PEAK loads. FOr that draw to be constant would require a CD that plays a 30Hz "hum" at 0dB. In that event, no capacitor is going to help, no matter what size.

Typical mustic program material (Even rap/dance) has a beat to it. When the bass notes hit, current draw spikes to beyond what the alternator and battery can supply. The result is that the lights dim MOMENTARILY, and the sound produced by the amplifier isn't right, because the amp can't get the current that it needs. This is where the capacitor steps in. It can provide the needed current and prevent voltage drops. This spreads the load out, so that even though the amplifier needs and draws 60A momentarily, but has an average current draw of (for example -- this will vary based on what music is playing) 25A, the alternator and battery will have to supply a load that varies from (again, as an example) 15A to 35A with much slower transients.

I have an inductive ammeter that I've put on my system to test the effectiveness of my stiffening cap at 1.2F. Peak and hold measurements go as follows:

All tests done after running car 15 minutes with all accesssories OFF Also performed with the same track on the same CD (1995 IASCA competition CD, track 31) at the same head unit volume (27 on a scale from 0 to 30) and with the engine at a constant 1000 RPM.

On the line with NO cap installed, max current draw = 77A. With headlights and fan on, max current draw = 68A.

Cap installed, line between capacitor and amplifiers, max current draw = 83A. With headlights and fan on max current draw = 81A.

Cap installed line between battery and cap, max current draw = 54A. With headlights and fan on, max current draw = 53A.

It should also be noted that the voltage gauge did not show any discernable dips during music playback with the capacitor installed, and I could not see any effect on the brightness of the headlights, provided engine RPM was kept steady. At idle, some dimming was noticable, as well as a slight drop in voltage. My ammeter has a peak and hold function, which I used. I therefore have no data on how long the max current draw was sustained for, nor what the "typical" draws were.

My evidence that this helps the system? Purely anecdotal, but I believe it's replicatable. I have burned out only 1 bulb in the car in the last 2 years. (A brake light that was installed at the factory in 1989.) Before the addidion of the stiffening capacitor, a set of headlights would typically last about 8 months. Marker lights would last about a year. I have received 4 batteries as warranty replacements. Each lasted about a year. The latest one (coinciding with the capacitor install) is 2 years old now, and shows no signs of not making it through the winter. These are all the same brand, size etc. (They're all 1000 CCA case size 24 Motomaster 72 series -- BTW Canadian Tire does offer good waranty service on their batteries. )

For a guideline on capacitor size, IASCA guidelines recommend about 1F/kW of amplifier output, but that does assume that you have enough alternator output to keep up with the average load. Not many factory alternators (read NONE) have the excess capacity to power 1kW of class A/B amplifier. If you are short on the minimum amount of current available, oversizing can help, but capacitors in excess of about 1F/500W are probably not going to help much. If you need more than that, it's time to turn down the volume, or upgrade your electrical system.

 

I had a zr600 in my Nissan Maxima(before i bought my tiburon) pushing 3 Rockford punches . I also had two 14 farad capacitors. It helped but not alot. I put this same system in my girlfriends dodge shadow without the capacitors and with one single 15" driver and the zr600 will pretty much shut off all the lights in here car. If i were you i would still buy one but make sure its a big one(at least 1). There is a company that makes a product called a bat cap. This thing is like a mini battery almost. It is better than most capacitors. It holds way more power. This would be my choice since you purchased a monster size amplifier.