Carrera

Ive been doing some thinking and searching on here and ive come to an interesting question in my mind. If our motors suck N/A and your lucky if you can even get 160WHP, how does turboing help us against other cars? If another car with another type of 2.0, can get higher horsepower from his motor on N/A, then turbo and run the same boost, shouldnt he be able to woop us? what makes our tibs so good if at N/A we suck? How do gen II mitsu eclipses fair as N/A? seeing as their motor is pretty similar. I mean, I once read somewhere that for every 1psi, is good for an average of 10 hp.... it that is true, how do tuners in korea manage to get 1000+ HP outa the beta engine? Do they get like 60 lbs of boost? if they could even achieve that and let alone have the motor handle it, that would only equate to lets say 750 HP at the max, on top of which, you can only get SO MUCH air into each cylinder, we only have 2L of displacement =P... Im not trying to rip on our motor at all, I just want to know, how is it i still manage to beat cars that have almost 50 more HP then we do (on the track of course)?

tanc

I have no idea what you are trying to say....

zoned019

psi isn't all there is to boosting..

the size of the turbo, nitrous, gas, compression...


and you can beat cars with 50 more hp because either a) you're a good driver, b) they're a shitty driver, and/or c) tibs weigh less.

Our cars suck n/a maybe because the pieces we upgrade (headers, exhaust, im, cai, etc) aren't really all the ineffecient from the factory. i believe our head is the problem, lots of restrictions. so, bolt-ons don't do as well for us as cars with for example a good flowing head but a very restrictive im and very small exhaust.

and i second what tanc said, that posts makes no sense to be honest

oh yeah, and whoever told you that "1psi for 10hp" is a moron.

Maverick

you could get a pretty decent hp number staying N/a but you would have to go ITB .... and for shure would be lower then a turbo or S/c .... but i've seen some cars do like 11sec N/a with a 4cyl 2.0L

an engine that have stock like 200hp.... compare to a beta that as only 140hp ..... yes you start higer but it only mean that the 200hp engine is push a bit further stock .... or you have better technology it's exactly like the lantra Vs the Tib same beta but 10hp less it's not like in the video games.... if you change everything on and in the engine both cars will have same hp numbers after all mods you wont have that 10hp diffrence you had at the start wink1.gif


you have to look at the displacement with a certain displacement like 2000cc or 2.0L you can achevie a certain amount of power ..... a 2.0L evan turbo will never make as much power as a v6 3.0L that is turbo to....

but if you take 2 engine with same displacement but one as 140hp and the other 200hp bretty shure if you push them both to the max you will get almost same number there is a lot of other variable to you know like valve size bore vs stroke the head the diamiter of the runner the shape they have

how they can get 1000hp out of a beta is simple with the right fuel and yess they might go to 60psi .... you'r almost right about turbo but it depend on the size of the turbo a huge turbo will make more then 10hp per psi a small turbo will make less then 10hp ...... and 2 turbo won't double the amount smile.gif

is 60psi achevable well i'd say you could virtualy do anything to an engine as long as you have the right fuel smile.gif if you don't lean or pink everything is fine

Alex01tib

/\ it isnt just fuel. you have to have the proper engine internals, tranny, ignition, and compression for the power

What you have to understand is that there isnt the same caliber of aftermarket n/a parts for the beta engines like the honda engines have. When a company makes n/a parts for an engine it takes very expensive tuning and calculating and test fitting and altering to make the most power possible. Companies know that they have to spend all this money in hopes that the product will sell enough to turn a profit, so either companies dont bother making N/A parts for the tiburon or they just make parts as quickly and cheaply as possible and this is why the N/A gains arent that great for us.

ALSO you should look more closely at where the other N/A engines make their power, they dont start making really good horsepower until they raise the redline to 9-10k. and they usually end up making 2x more horsepower than torque because of it.



at first you see 210whp on an N/A 2.0L engine and you are really impressed, but notice the torque peak is 148 ft*lbs torque which isnt terribly impressive. And at 6500 it has 180 horsepower, which is attainable with the tib as of now and most likely surpassable if equal professional tuning and aftermarket parts were available.

I dont believe any of the N/A tibs have raised their redline's significantly with high compression pistons, cams, p/p - fully worked head, lightweight internals, etc, etc.

This honda was running 12.5:1 compression, cammed out, full intake, 440cc injectors, AEM EMS, etc etc.

The reason tib doesnt have problems competing when boosted is because turbocharging is more or less universal, so were no longer held back by the fact that companies dont want to make parts for us. You dont need a turbocharger made just for your engine, and with a standalone ecu, reinforced low comp internals/tranny, and an LSD, your more or less set for a great amount of power and speed.

hamhead

^^ you are correct sir.

As for numbers of the K20A (N/A Mitsu) people were pushing 230-240whp, but thats with higher redline, cams, stroked, etc.

For that reason when I first joined I told Redz that 200whp was possible and he yelled at me. lmao.gif

Alex01tib

oh its very possible, but it would require a crapload of money, tuning, and testing that would be the equivilent of making 2 500whp turbo tibs.

faithofadragon

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaveRick @ Sep 29 2006, 04:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>an engine that have stock like 200hp.... compare to a beta that as only 140hp ..... yes you start higer but it only mean that the 200hp engine is push a bit further stock .... or you have better technology it's exactly like the lantra Vs the Tib same beta but 10hp less it's not like in the video games....</div>

lantra vs tib? 10hp less?

same motor doode...

in a stock for stock race between a tib and a elantra and similar drivers they will be extremely close (elantra weighs like 40lbs less) it would be down to drivers really

elantra has a different FGR and thats about the only drivetrain difference

Carrera

Hey thx for the info guys. A bit of topic but does maybe CVVT have anything to do with our ability to own the other 4cly cars out there?

Alex01tib

no, thats merely for emissions purposes