1.8 Cams, Ecu, Bbtb
11-20-2006, 11:07 PM
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Hey guys..well as the title says i want to turn my car into touring race car..this is not for like another 2 years, but im slowly gathering all the information and getting the little mods done..
Well, im not a perfomance nerd, so im here to ask you alot of questions wink1.gif, so far the car is just used for normal everyday driving..Ive got CAI, 4-1 Headers, sports exaust, just installed OZ-Flow short shifter and ive got a 58mm TB laying around, this is where questions begin..
Some information i get from my dad, he used to race wit cars, so he knows quite a bit..But anyway..
Well first i wanted the 1.8 cams, but my dad said that if i just replace that it wouldnt be a big differnce cos the amount of fuel would still be the same as it is controled by the ECU so even if the chamber is open for longer the amount sprayed in is still the same meaning that 1.8 Cams dont make a difference without chaning the settings in the ECU, that would change the amount of mixture sprayed in..Is this right? However, ive heard that the ECU would somehow adjust to the change and learn the new stuff so i dont need to replace it, again is this right?
Now the TB, as it is 8mm bigger than stock, it obviously increases the amount of air that gets into the engine, but the amount of fuel is controled by the ECU, meaning that the air-fuel mixutre would have more air now than before and hence would lose power. This seems to be logicaly right, but im a n00b so correct me if im wrong..? I asked about why do people feel difference, he said because at first its good cos there is enuf fuel in the chamber but then u lose more power. So it seems i need to change the settings of the ECU again..
Now all these adjustments involve chaning the ECU settings, is there anyway to change it on the stock ECU, or maybe u guys know where i could get a racing ECU, that the settings can be easily adjusted?
Well, im not a perfomance nerd, so im here to ask you alot of questions wink1.gif, so far the car is just used for normal everyday driving..Ive got CAI, 4-1 Headers, sports exaust, just installed OZ-Flow short shifter and ive got a 58mm TB laying around, this is where questions begin..
Some information i get from my dad, he used to race wit cars, so he knows quite a bit..But anyway..
Well first i wanted the 1.8 cams, but my dad said that if i just replace that it wouldnt be a big differnce cos the amount of fuel would still be the same as it is controled by the ECU so even if the chamber is open for longer the amount sprayed in is still the same meaning that 1.8 Cams dont make a difference without chaning the settings in the ECU, that would change the amount of mixture sprayed in..Is this right? However, ive heard that the ECU would somehow adjust to the change and learn the new stuff so i dont need to replace it, again is this right?
Now the TB, as it is 8mm bigger than stock, it obviously increases the amount of air that gets into the engine, but the amount of fuel is controled by the ECU, meaning that the air-fuel mixutre would have more air now than before and hence would lose power. This seems to be logicaly right, but im a n00b so correct me if im wrong..? I asked about why do people feel difference, he said because at first its good cos there is enuf fuel in the chamber but then u lose more power. So it seems i need to change the settings of the ECU again..
Now all these adjustments involve chaning the ECU settings, is there anyway to change it on the stock ECU, or maybe u guys know where i could get a racing ECU, that the settings can be easily adjusted?
11-20-2006, 11:13 PM
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There's a lot of information on this, search for 1.8 or 1.8L
To overcome the ECU problems, you could also do a 1.8L ECU swap in addition to the other two mentioned, I know that gives an extra little boost.
Even though it's controlled by the ECU (2.0), it can still tell that there's more gas and air that can go into the cylinder, so it compensates for that by tossing in some more. As far as I know, it knows how much lift there is, and adds gas/fuel as necessary. I'm not an expert, but this is what I've read about...
To overcome the ECU problems, you could also do a 1.8L ECU swap in addition to the other two mentioned, I know that gives an extra little boost.
Even though it's controlled by the ECU (2.0), it can still tell that there's more gas and air that can go into the cylinder, so it compensates for that by tossing in some more. As far as I know, it knows how much lift there is, and adds gas/fuel as necessary. I'm not an expert, but this is what I've read about...
11-20-2006, 11:15 PM
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I know you've probably heard this before but alot of these ???'s can be answered by searching this site. Take a lil time and search each of these subjects.
^^^ Strike beat me to it by like a min while I was typing...lol
^^^ Strike beat me to it by like a min while I was typing...lol
11-21-2006, 04:13 AM
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Guys guys, ive searched the site, but if i do find the answer, it only answers one part of my question.. Plus most of them have a lot of posts and quite a few ppl say different things, its hard to get one straight answer, whats where and etc.. and reading thru about 10 threads with 20+ replies on them it just gets really annoying especially when u dont find the answer..=/
11-21-2006, 06:03 AM
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come on guys, everyone knows that u can search for an hour and not find the exact answer to a question. it seems like he did his bit of research, just help the man out.
as far as i know the ecu will compenstate for the longer lift and duration caused but 1.8l cams. i'm not too sure about the 1.8l ecu as i dont have as much knowledge about it.
i know our stock ecu has some learning abilitys so the larger TB shouldnt give u a problem for more then a few starts, the ecu just needs time to understand what changes happend and how to work with them.
i'm sure if i'm wrong someone will jump in and correct me. but thats what i know to be true
as far as i know the ecu will compenstate for the longer lift and duration caused but 1.8l cams. i'm not too sure about the 1.8l ecu as i dont have as much knowledge about it.
i know our stock ecu has some learning abilitys so the larger TB shouldnt give u a problem for more then a few starts, the ecu just needs time to understand what changes happend and how to work with them.
i'm sure if i'm wrong someone will jump in and correct me. but thats what i know to be true
11-21-2006, 06:46 AM
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Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon, 2004 Kia Sorento, 2010 Kia Soul
^^^
Doesn't matter, searching will answer all of this, as it's ALL talked about dozens of times.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Osv4 @ Nov 20 2006, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well first i wanted the 1.8 cams, but my dad said that if i just replace that it wouldnt be a big differnce cos the amount of fuel would still be the same as it is controled by the ECU so even if the chamber is open for longer the amount sprayed in is still the same meaning that 1.8 Cams dont make a difference without chaning the settings in the ECU, that would change the amount of mixture sprayed in..Is this right? However, ive heard that the ECU would somehow adjust to the change and learn the new stuff so i dont need to replace it, again is this right?</div>
It's a 1.8L Intake CAM, not CAMS. No, it won't be a big difference, but yes, your ECU will adjust for it fine.
SO NO, what you said is NOT right. Our ECU's learn and adapt to changing conditions. This is discussed dozens of times in these forums.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Now the TB, as it is 8mm bigger than stock, it obviously increases the amount of air that gets into the engine, but the amount of fuel is controled by the ECU, meaning that the air-fuel mixutre would have more air now than before and hence would lose power. This seems to be logicaly right, but im a n00b so correct me if im wrong..? I asked about why do people feel difference, he said because at first its good cos there is enuf fuel in the chamber but then u lose more power. So it seems i need to change the settings of the ECU again..</div>
58MM is not 8mm larger than 54mm. It's 4 MM larger. You do NOT lose power. Why? Because your ECU adjusts to the new readings coming in and adds more fuel to compensate. This is discussed dozens of times in these forums.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Now all these adjustments involve chaning the ECU settings, is there anyway to change it on the stock ECU, or maybe u guys know where i could get a racing ECU, that the settings can be easily adjusted?</div>
Sure there's a way. You reset the ECU. This is discussed HUNDREDS of times in these forums.
There is no "racing ecu", you would have to go Standalone or Piggyback.
Doesn't matter, searching will answer all of this, as it's ALL talked about dozens of times.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Osv4 @ Nov 20 2006, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well first i wanted the 1.8 cams, but my dad said that if i just replace that it wouldnt be a big differnce cos the amount of fuel would still be the same as it is controled by the ECU so even if the chamber is open for longer the amount sprayed in is still the same meaning that 1.8 Cams dont make a difference without chaning the settings in the ECU, that would change the amount of mixture sprayed in..Is this right? However, ive heard that the ECU would somehow adjust to the change and learn the new stuff so i dont need to replace it, again is this right?</div>
It's a 1.8L Intake CAM, not CAMS. No, it won't be a big difference, but yes, your ECU will adjust for it fine.
SO NO, what you said is NOT right. Our ECU's learn and adapt to changing conditions. This is discussed dozens of times in these forums.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Now the TB, as it is 8mm bigger than stock, it obviously increases the amount of air that gets into the engine, but the amount of fuel is controled by the ECU, meaning that the air-fuel mixutre would have more air now than before and hence would lose power. This seems to be logicaly right, but im a n00b so correct me if im wrong..? I asked about why do people feel difference, he said because at first its good cos there is enuf fuel in the chamber but then u lose more power. So it seems i need to change the settings of the ECU again..</div>
58MM is not 8mm larger than 54mm. It's 4 MM larger. You do NOT lose power. Why? Because your ECU adjusts to the new readings coming in and adds more fuel to compensate. This is discussed dozens of times in these forums.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Now all these adjustments involve chaning the ECU settings, is there anyway to change it on the stock ECU, or maybe u guys know where i could get a racing ECU, that the settings can be easily adjusted?</div>
Sure there's a way. You reset the ECU. This is discussed HUNDREDS of times in these forums.
There is no "racing ecu", you would have to go Standalone or Piggyback.
11-21-2006, 04:42 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (REDZMAN @ Nov 22 2006, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^^^
Doesn't matter, searching will answer all of this, as it's ALL talked about dozens of times.
It's a 1.8L Intake CAM, not CAMS. No, it won't be a big difference, but yes, your ECU will adjust for it fine.</div>
I thought our cars have two cams, dont we replace them both?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>58MM is not 8mm larger than 54mm. It's 4 MM larger. You do NOT lose power. Why? Because your ECU adjusts to the new readings coming in and adds more fuel to compensate. This is discussed dozens of times in these forums.</div>
How is it 54mm? RD1 Stock one is 50mm, only GKs have 54mm.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Sure there's a way. You reset the ECU. This is discussed HUNDREDS of times in these forums.
There is no "racing ecu", you would have to go Standalone or Piggyback.</div>
Ok if you say you dont need new ecu for these upgrades, why most of the people i talk to say that just replacing the parts wont do much good, cos u need to change settings in the ECU and because the stock ECU is "locked up" u have to get a new one that lets u change settings and do proper tuning.. And ive spoken to people that do race and all said the same thing..so i dunno who is right here..
And sorry of this thread that was 'discussed hundrends of times', my bad for not searching hard enough and reading 40 posts for 5hours looking for one simple explanation, if i need to replace my stock ecu..
Doesn't matter, searching will answer all of this, as it's ALL talked about dozens of times.
It's a 1.8L Intake CAM, not CAMS. No, it won't be a big difference, but yes, your ECU will adjust for it fine.</div>
I thought our cars have two cams, dont we replace them both?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>58MM is not 8mm larger than 54mm. It's 4 MM larger. You do NOT lose power. Why? Because your ECU adjusts to the new readings coming in and adds more fuel to compensate. This is discussed dozens of times in these forums.</div>
How is it 54mm? RD1 Stock one is 50mm, only GKs have 54mm.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Sure there's a way. You reset the ECU. This is discussed HUNDREDS of times in these forums.
There is no "racing ecu", you would have to go Standalone or Piggyback.</div>
Ok if you say you dont need new ecu for these upgrades, why most of the people i talk to say that just replacing the parts wont do much good, cos u need to change settings in the ECU and because the stock ECU is "locked up" u have to get a new one that lets u change settings and do proper tuning.. And ive spoken to people that do race and all said the same thing..so i dunno who is right here..
And sorry of this thread that was 'discussed hundrends of times', my bad for not searching hard enough and reading 40 posts for 5hours looking for one simple explanation, if i need to replace my stock ecu..
