Rear wheel drive conversion
06-04-2002, 08:19 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Shadohh:
actually porsche and ferrari and lmaboghinin are moving to awd smile.gif
rwd is over rated I think personally.</div>???? Like they need traction LOL what 220mph and they worry about gripping the road.
BAAA
Weaklings..
(sorry for the post whore rolleyes.gif )
But no thats kewl. IF hyundai could only do AWD on a 220hp tib. That would kill.
As autobot would say. IT WOULD OWN JOO
actually porsche and ferrari and lmaboghinin are moving to awd smile.gif
rwd is over rated I think personally.</div>???? Like they need traction LOL what 220mph and they worry about gripping the road.
BAAA
Weaklings..
(sorry for the post whore rolleyes.gif )
But no thats kewl. IF hyundai could only do AWD on a 220hp tib. That would kill.
As autobot would say. IT WOULD OWN JOO
06-04-2002, 10:55 PM
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Alright guys, lets have a look at the 3 drive types. The weaknesses first.
Short versions for all.
FWD:Front wheels handle everything, drive, braking, cornering, the rear wheels just follow around and pick up the scraps. This leads to the front tyres doing all the work, and becoming overloaded very quickly. Imagine the total tractive capacity of a tyre to be 100%. If you go beyond this your tyres will not be able to grip. having all 3 functions handled by the front wheels, the tyres reach their maximum tractive capacity very quickly; you can only brake and turn the steering wheel so much before you break away, throttling out of a corner, the car will experience power understeer, as weight is shifted to the rear and less traction is avalible. The same thing happens in a straight line. There is more.
RWD:More tractive capacity is avalible at the front wheels as the rear wheels do the driving. The front wheels handle cornering and the majority of braking torque. RWD has a tendency to oversteer under power, the opposite of FWD so the driver must be careful if he is not used to it. RWD has greater HP loss through the drivetrain, because of there being a final drive and a propeller shaft.There is more.
4WD:The biggest HP loser. Because of the immense drag imposed upon the drivetrain by the layout, and the often complicated drive systems, 4WD is most commonly used either in off-road vehicles or very high-powered road cars like Lancer Evolution 7. Because of the front wheels also driving the car, initial turn-in will respond like FWD, with INITIAL understeer. Because of the increased load on the components resulting from drivetrain drag, the components will be more likely to sustain increased wear and tear. 4WD is harder on tyres, especially with mechanical LSD installed. There is more.
Now the strengths:
FWD:Has the least drivetrain HP loss, because of the characteristic of FWD, it is suitable for lower-output contests, also because a FWD car is inherently lighter than the other 2 types because of minimal equipment. In lower output classes, this is the reason why FWD is commonly chosen. FWD is also more cost-effective to produce en mass. There is much more.
RWD: Has greater avalible traction, can over-rotate in a corner and since weight is transferred to the rear wheels upon accleration, the advantage is obvious. This is also dependant on suspension setup and type. The greater tractive capacity of the front tyres means that RWD can brake later into a corner than FWD, and then over-rotate and drift out of a corner, whereas a FWD drver will have to literally drive out of a corner because of power understeer. There is more.
4WD:Has the greatest tractive potential uopn accleration and corner exits, especially when assisted by LSD. Braking capacity is also increased, especially under the influence of engine compressionc effect. With all of the above, 4WD is chosen for very high power application or when traction is of the biggest concern, such as in high power application. There is a shi*t load more than this.
The bottom line: YOU MAKE THE CHOICE. How you drive the car makes a lot of difference as to what drive type suits you the best. When all drive types are analyzed in great detail, you will see that the strengths and weaknesses somewhat even out. If you are good at balancing the suspension into a turn and out of it, with smooth movements at the pedals then FWD will work for you, and very well. Contrary to popular opinion, FWD is also capable of over-rotation and drifting with the correct techniques being used. If you tend to keep the steering wheel relatively even and like to turn with the acclerator or brake, the RWD is your cup of tea. If you like to have unsurpassed accleration and great traction avalible, and like to drive in a gripping fashion within the limit of ahedsion, then $wd will make you happier than the other 2. Again, this all depends on the driver, what he likes, his opinions and his style, which are in some occasions contrary.
Personally though, I like RWD. Because changing the front wheel bearings and shocks is easier.
Short versions for all.
FWD:Front wheels handle everything, drive, braking, cornering, the rear wheels just follow around and pick up the scraps. This leads to the front tyres doing all the work, and becoming overloaded very quickly. Imagine the total tractive capacity of a tyre to be 100%. If you go beyond this your tyres will not be able to grip. having all 3 functions handled by the front wheels, the tyres reach their maximum tractive capacity very quickly; you can only brake and turn the steering wheel so much before you break away, throttling out of a corner, the car will experience power understeer, as weight is shifted to the rear and less traction is avalible. The same thing happens in a straight line. There is more.
RWD:More tractive capacity is avalible at the front wheels as the rear wheels do the driving. The front wheels handle cornering and the majority of braking torque. RWD has a tendency to oversteer under power, the opposite of FWD so the driver must be careful if he is not used to it. RWD has greater HP loss through the drivetrain, because of there being a final drive and a propeller shaft.There is more.
4WD:The biggest HP loser. Because of the immense drag imposed upon the drivetrain by the layout, and the often complicated drive systems, 4WD is most commonly used either in off-road vehicles or very high-powered road cars like Lancer Evolution 7. Because of the front wheels also driving the car, initial turn-in will respond like FWD, with INITIAL understeer. Because of the increased load on the components resulting from drivetrain drag, the components will be more likely to sustain increased wear and tear. 4WD is harder on tyres, especially with mechanical LSD installed. There is more.
Now the strengths:
FWD:Has the least drivetrain HP loss, because of the characteristic of FWD, it is suitable for lower-output contests, also because a FWD car is inherently lighter than the other 2 types because of minimal equipment. In lower output classes, this is the reason why FWD is commonly chosen. FWD is also more cost-effective to produce en mass. There is much more.
RWD: Has greater avalible traction, can over-rotate in a corner and since weight is transferred to the rear wheels upon accleration, the advantage is obvious. This is also dependant on suspension setup and type. The greater tractive capacity of the front tyres means that RWD can brake later into a corner than FWD, and then over-rotate and drift out of a corner, whereas a FWD drver will have to literally drive out of a corner because of power understeer. There is more.
4WD:Has the greatest tractive potential uopn accleration and corner exits, especially when assisted by LSD. Braking capacity is also increased, especially under the influence of engine compressionc effect. With all of the above, 4WD is chosen for very high power application or when traction is of the biggest concern, such as in high power application. There is a shi*t load more than this.
The bottom line: YOU MAKE THE CHOICE. How you drive the car makes a lot of difference as to what drive type suits you the best. When all drive types are analyzed in great detail, you will see that the strengths and weaknesses somewhat even out. If you are good at balancing the suspension into a turn and out of it, with smooth movements at the pedals then FWD will work for you, and very well. Contrary to popular opinion, FWD is also capable of over-rotation and drifting with the correct techniques being used. If you tend to keep the steering wheel relatively even and like to turn with the acclerator or brake, the RWD is your cup of tea. If you like to have unsurpassed accleration and great traction avalible, and like to drive in a gripping fashion within the limit of ahedsion, then $wd will make you happier than the other 2. Again, this all depends on the driver, what he likes, his opinions and his style, which are in some occasions contrary.
Personally though, I like RWD. Because changing the front wheel bearings and shocks is easier.
06-04-2002, 10:55 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Copa_do_Mundo:
Exactly, any true sports car out there is RWD, such as Porsche, Ferarri, and so on.</div>The ones you mention are also mid/rear engined and have nearly 50/50 weight distrobution.
Front engine rear-wheel drive makes no sense. Sure it's fun for drifting, but honestly, all of the weight is in the front and your driving the wheels at the back? Brutal.
It's not really about WHICH wheels you drive, it's about where the ENGINE is in relation to the wheels you're driving. The exception of course is AWD.
Exactly, any true sports car out there is RWD, such as Porsche, Ferarri, and so on.</div>The ones you mention are also mid/rear engined and have nearly 50/50 weight distrobution.
Front engine rear-wheel drive makes no sense. Sure it's fun for drifting, but honestly, all of the weight is in the front and your driving the wheels at the back? Brutal.
It's not really about WHICH wheels you drive, it's about where the ENGINE is in relation to the wheels you're driving. The exception of course is AWD.
06-05-2002, 12:43 AM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Shadohh:
actually porsche and ferrari and lmaboghinin are moving to awd smile.gif
rwd is over rated I think personally.</div>Not to discredit your opinion... you make a good point about Porsche and Lambo...
But consider that BMW still builds ALL of its cars as RWD, with the exception of the 325/330xi and the X5, which are AWD. Even the 400hp M5 has RWD. And BMWs are praised around the world for having some of the most balanced and sporty handling of any car make.
With RWD, because you let the rear wheels handle the power, the fronts only have to deal with steering and suspension, which eliminates the torque steer that most Hyundais are plaqued with.
Yes, RWD can be a handful in winter, but it is hard to make a FWD or even an AWD car handle and steer as purely as a RWD car.
Given a choice, I'd take AWD over anything, but I'd prefer RWD to FWD for everyday driving. If ya gotta drive it in snow, then buy some good winter tires. The right tires car make all the difference in any weather conditions.
actually porsche and ferrari and lmaboghinin are moving to awd smile.gif
rwd is over rated I think personally.</div>Not to discredit your opinion... you make a good point about Porsche and Lambo...
But consider that BMW still builds ALL of its cars as RWD, with the exception of the 325/330xi and the X5, which are AWD. Even the 400hp M5 has RWD. And BMWs are praised around the world for having some of the most balanced and sporty handling of any car make.
With RWD, because you let the rear wheels handle the power, the fronts only have to deal with steering and suspension, which eliminates the torque steer that most Hyundais are plaqued with.
Yes, RWD can be a handful in winter, but it is hard to make a FWD or even an AWD car handle and steer as purely as a RWD car.
Given a choice, I'd take AWD over anything, but I'd prefer RWD to FWD for everyday driving. If ya gotta drive it in snow, then buy some good winter tires. The right tires car make all the difference in any weather conditions.
06-05-2002, 01:00 AM
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If you want to get really technical...
I believe the best combo is front / mid engine (that is the engine is located behind the front wheels.. and RWD(RX7). The next best is rear / mid engine and RWD.(F360).
I believe the best combo is front / mid engine (that is the engine is located behind the front wheels.. and RWD(RX7). The next best is rear / mid engine and RWD.(F360).
06-05-2002, 01:07 AM
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The real issue here is that it is cheaper to munufacture a FWD vehicle. On the assy. line the entire drivetrain can be sub assembly. It was designed for the the manufacturing process and sold to us on the so called benifits.
They have come a long way in FWD technology but I still beleive that you are asking the front wheels to do too much.
They have come a long way in FWD technology but I still beleive that you are asking the front wheels to do too much.
06-05-2002, 06:08 PM
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Back to the first part of the question. To convert a tibby to Rear wheel drive, the easiest way to do it would be to install an engine in the trunk. This would make it mid engine rear wheel drive (just imagine the 2 engine tibby with just the rear engine).
You could TRY to do it with the engine up front, but the FWD chassis lacks a drive shaft tunned to get the power to the rear wheels. You would either have to suspend the driveshaft UNDER the existing chassis, or do some SERIOUS modifications to the chassis to make a drive shaft tunnel.
In general, I prefer FWD cars, as that is what I learned to drive on, and that is where my skill base is. However...power on oversteer(rwd) is fun as hell, and sure beats power on understeer(FWD) (for fun). tongue.gif tongue.gif
You could TRY to do it with the engine up front, but the FWD chassis lacks a drive shaft tunned to get the power to the rear wheels. You would either have to suspend the driveshaft UNDER the existing chassis, or do some SERIOUS modifications to the chassis to make a drive shaft tunnel.
In general, I prefer FWD cars, as that is what I learned to drive on, and that is where my skill base is. However...power on oversteer(rwd) is fun as hell, and sure beats power on understeer(FWD) (for fun). tongue.gif tongue.gif