Too much power for your tires? Try this
09-06-2002, 12:44 AM
#1
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Too much power for your tires? Try this
A turbo is good for engines pulling a load but unfortunately is often
used on race cars with limited success ie. track racing or offroad
racing. These decompressed racing engines create very little power before
the turbo actually starts working. When, however, the turbo starts
boosting, the engine gets really "lively".
Typically, in a racing situation one taps off before coming to a
corner and then "feeds" it before coming out of the corner. This is
where the trouble begins. The turbo is flat, and one tends to push the
pedal more than one should. Once the boost sets in, the car breaks loose
and the spectators are entertained by some spectacular slides or spins.
It is spectacular, but fast it ain't! In order to overcome this
everyone has little tricks. Here is one which I fancy:
A really smart guy made an adjustable springloaded throttle stop,
the spring being strong enough so that you could feel it, but soft
enough so that you could "push" past it. He then adjusted the stop position
to suit the particular race track so that he could get around the
corners without "loosing" it. Once on the straight he would "bury" the pedal
past the springloaded stop. I think this is clever! The only bad thing
to say about it is that it needs no electronic parts!
This trick can also be used on any car not just turbo. It can be used as a traction control system (2 stage limiter/staging limiter) at the drag track on both auto and manual trannies.
Hope you all like. smile.gif
[ September 07, 2002, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: SCCA 01 Elantra ]
used on race cars with limited success ie. track racing or offroad
racing. These decompressed racing engines create very little power before
the turbo actually starts working. When, however, the turbo starts
boosting, the engine gets really "lively".
Typically, in a racing situation one taps off before coming to a
corner and then "feeds" it before coming out of the corner. This is
where the trouble begins. The turbo is flat, and one tends to push the
pedal more than one should. Once the boost sets in, the car breaks loose
and the spectators are entertained by some spectacular slides or spins.
It is spectacular, but fast it ain't! In order to overcome this
everyone has little tricks. Here is one which I fancy:
A really smart guy made an adjustable springloaded throttle stop,
the spring being strong enough so that you could feel it, but soft
enough so that you could "push" past it. He then adjusted the stop position
to suit the particular race track so that he could get around the
corners without "loosing" it. Once on the straight he would "bury" the pedal
past the springloaded stop. I think this is clever! The only bad thing
to say about it is that it needs no electronic parts!
This trick can also be used on any car not just turbo. It can be used as a traction control system (2 stage limiter/staging limiter) at the drag track on both auto and manual trannies.
Hope you all like. smile.gif
[ September 07, 2002, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: SCCA 01 Elantra ]
09-06-2002, 03:25 AM
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If you're having that much trouble with turbo lag, you didnt size your turbo right or there's something wrong somewhere in your setup thats causing you to fall off boost. Be it gearing, manifold design, piping, etc.
09-06-2002, 03:41 AM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>MaDHatteR:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Random:
Well....it's free advice....and worth what I paid for it.</div>thats harsh man!</div>It wasn't harsh.
Random just knows whats legit and whats bulls*it!
[ September 06, 2002, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Jaws ]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Random:
Well....it's free advice....and worth what I paid for it.</div>thats harsh man!</div>It wasn't harsh.
Random just knows whats legit and whats bulls*it!
[ September 06, 2002, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Jaws ]
09-06-2002, 06:25 AM
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what is so wrong with this post guys? Have any of you road raced on a track or auto crossed? Ifg you have you know most of the driving is done in 2nd gear from like 25MPH to 60MPH (2000RPM to 6000RPM) if your at 2000 rpm going through a turn obviously most turbos are not fully spooled at this point. maybe 2500RPM if you got a very small turbo. 3000RPM if your lucky with a t3/t4. even if it has spooled at this point your going through a turn and then punch it too much then you break you tires free and slide. This mod would not neccesarily be needed with a really good experienced driver on a road course, because he would know exactly how much throttle it would need to break traction at any speed on the track.
THis mod could also be used so you can have a consistant RPM on the line at the drag track. Allowing you to hold say 4000 RPM and launch at that, helping you to minimize tire spin. when you feel traction you can then push through the throttle stop. Better than a more expensive 2 step rev control or the MSD DIS-2 which has the staging limiter.
Even if your turbo setup doesnt lag what would happen if you gave it too much gas???? boom you loose traction.
You guys are making it seem that Turbo lag does not exist and noone has tractio problems because of it. Or your just that good of a driver you think that stuff is bogus to use.
Well simple fact remains, your NOT a professional driver and your ARE prone to mistakes. So why not use something like this to minimize or prevent you from making one.
Nascar guys use throttle stops to prevent from giving the car too much gas or on a short track where they dont want to go too fast for the track. Pro Import guys use staging rev limiters to stay consistant knowing that they DO make mistakes and use them to prevent those mistakes.
It sounds like you guys are making fun of someone that has the turbo lag instead of saying well yeah this will work for those that have trubo lag. Why make fun of someone instead try helping them out instead of just saying well learn how to drive.
[ September 06, 2002, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: SCCA 01 Elantra ]
THis mod could also be used so you can have a consistant RPM on the line at the drag track. Allowing you to hold say 4000 RPM and launch at that, helping you to minimize tire spin. when you feel traction you can then push through the throttle stop. Better than a more expensive 2 step rev control or the MSD DIS-2 which has the staging limiter.
Even if your turbo setup doesnt lag what would happen if you gave it too much gas???? boom you loose traction.
You guys are making it seem that Turbo lag does not exist and noone has tractio problems because of it. Or your just that good of a driver you think that stuff is bogus to use.
Well simple fact remains, your NOT a professional driver and your ARE prone to mistakes. So why not use something like this to minimize or prevent you from making one.
Nascar guys use throttle stops to prevent from giving the car too much gas or on a short track where they dont want to go too fast for the track. Pro Import guys use staging rev limiters to stay consistant knowing that they DO make mistakes and use them to prevent those mistakes.
It sounds like you guys are making fun of someone that has the turbo lag instead of saying well yeah this will work for those that have trubo lag. Why make fun of someone instead try helping them out instead of just saying well learn how to drive.
[ September 06, 2002, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: SCCA 01 Elantra ]
09-06-2002, 09:10 AM
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You contradict yourself. If a turbo can't spool up....I have no need of the throttle stop. If the turbo is small enough to spool up that low then where is the problem? You state "you punch it too much"...you could do that just as easily in a N/A car as a turbo car. Ever driven a Toyota Celica GT-S? Ever felt the 30 HP power hit when the cam changes profile? How about a Honda Vtec? It's the drivers job to DRIVE. To know his car if he wants to race it. Not to put a cork in the tail pipe to slow him down, or a crushed beer car under the accelerator pedal to keep him from flooring it.
And if you are autocrossing in only second gear, then I must say, I totally dissagree with your driving style. I down shift to first and engine brake and right foot brake, and shift to third often for various different reasons.
Professional racing is about MANY things...who is the better driver, which driver/team can adapt faster/better to changing conditions, who has the better car/engine/suspension/tires/fuel economy..etc..etc..etc..
I have YET to see a race won on "who had the best throttle stop" or 2 stage throttle switch.
A simple throttle stop or 2 stage throttle is NOT going to help you to become a better driver. It's NOT going to help you to win races.
What is IS going to do HANDICAP your car to compensate for your lack of skill, talent, and ability to adapt. It's also going to HANDICAP your ability to LEARN how to handle your car, engine/suspension..etc..etc..etc..
In the time it would take you to figure out HOW to make a 2 stage throttle linkage work, and set it up to do what you want....you could improve your driving skills by spending the time behind the wheel learning how to HANDLE the power you have, and be better off in the end.
If your idea is so wonderful, and you believe in it so much. Let's see timeslips from your local track as to how you cut seconds off your time by only using 3/4 throttle due to a throttle stop. Let's see a "how to" write up as to how to setup/install this device. Let's see photos of your setup.
Do you even USE such a device? have you ever attempted to manufacture such a device? How about trying your own advice before posting it up for others.
In regards to your "claims" that turbos are mainly good for pulling loads and only "limited" success in racing...you obviously have no grasp of racing history, or the theory/mechanics/physics behind turbos. The main reason that there are such limited forms of turbo racing today is that the turbo's were TOO SUCCESSFUL!!!! 1800 HP out of less than 3 Liters of displacement. Most racing bodies mandated normally aspriated setups to slow the cars down for driver saftey, and in the interest of better competition. Not because they didn't work. They worked all to well.
Again, your free advice is worth just what we paid for it. And I suggest you take it yourself first and come back with proof if you expect anyone to take you seriously.
You contradict yourself. If a turbo can't spool up....I have no need of the throttle stop. If the turbo is small enough to spool up that low then where is the problem? You state "you punch it too much"...you could do that just as easily in a N/A car as a turbo car. Ever driven a Toyota Celica GT-S? Ever felt the 30 HP power hit when the cam changes profile? How about a Honda Vtec? It's the drivers job to DRIVE. To know his car if he wants to race it. Not to put a cork in the tail pipe to slow him down, or a crushed beer car under the accelerator pedal to keep him from flooring it.
And if you are autocrossing in only second gear, then I must say, I totally dissagree with your driving style. I down shift to first and engine brake and right foot brake, and shift to third often for various different reasons.
Professional racing is about MANY things...who is the better driver, which driver/team can adapt faster/better to changing conditions, who has the better car/engine/suspension/tires/fuel economy..etc..etc..etc..
I have YET to see a race won on "who had the best throttle stop" or 2 stage throttle switch.
A simple throttle stop or 2 stage throttle is NOT going to help you to become a better driver. It's NOT going to help you to win races.
What is IS going to do HANDICAP your car to compensate for your lack of skill, talent, and ability to adapt. It's also going to HANDICAP your ability to LEARN how to handle your car, engine/suspension..etc..etc..etc..
In the time it would take you to figure out HOW to make a 2 stage throttle linkage work, and set it up to do what you want....you could improve your driving skills by spending the time behind the wheel learning how to HANDLE the power you have, and be better off in the end.
If your idea is so wonderful, and you believe in it so much. Let's see timeslips from your local track as to how you cut seconds off your time by only using 3/4 throttle due to a throttle stop. Let's see a "how to" write up as to how to setup/install this device. Let's see photos of your setup.
Do you even USE such a device? have you ever attempted to manufacture such a device? How about trying your own advice before posting it up for others.
In regards to your "claims" that turbos are mainly good for pulling loads and only "limited" success in racing...you obviously have no grasp of racing history, or the theory/mechanics/physics behind turbos. The main reason that there are such limited forms of turbo racing today is that the turbo's were TOO SUCCESSFUL!!!! 1800 HP out of less than 3 Liters of displacement. Most racing bodies mandated normally aspriated setups to slow the cars down for driver saftey, and in the interest of better competition. Not because they didn't work. They worked all to well.
Again, your free advice is worth just what we paid for it. And I suggest you take it yourself first and come back with proof if you expect anyone to take you seriously.
09-06-2002, 10:23 AM
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Uhhhh SCCA sorry to do this to you bro but the reasons you posted up, thats kinda like what AntiLag is used for man, and there's a little technique called left-brakig that also helps the situation; heel-and-toe also helps to keep the turbo spooling, in rally you'll usually turn ON the throttle instead of braking into the turn and track racing where you'll have to heel-and-toe double-clutch most of the time(usually cuz of a sequential box)to keep the engine in the band, it all helps to rectify the problem.
Yeah we aren't professional drivers, we're propably never ever gonna be good enough, but even rofessional drivers make mistakes. The ones that are around today(except for Ayrton Senna anyway)would be the best, they would have to be to survive this long in this sport.
~The main reason that there are such limited forms of turbo racing today is that the turbo's were TOO SUCCESSFUL!!!! ~Random
This is also part of the reason why Rallying Group B was banned, the cars were becoming too fast to be driven safely, and very often got shot off of the track into the crowd.
[ September 06, 2002, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: MechaniX_034 ]
Yeah we aren't professional drivers, we're propably never ever gonna be good enough, but even rofessional drivers make mistakes. The ones that are around today(except for Ayrton Senna anyway)would be the best, they would have to be to survive this long in this sport.
~The main reason that there are such limited forms of turbo racing today is that the turbo's were TOO SUCCESSFUL!!!! ~Random
This is also part of the reason why Rallying Group B was banned, the cars were becoming too fast to be driven safely, and very often got shot off of the track into the crowd.
[ September 06, 2002, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: MechaniX_034 ]