Rich fuel problem FIXED !! READ THIS
03-07-2002, 03:44 AM
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Rich fuel problem FIXED !! READ THIS
I have figured it out.
it took me a few minutes to think this up.. and here is my solution...
see diagram..
1. arming switch is OFF, fuel flows through the one way valve to the fuel rail. (same valve that is in the fuel lines in the tank, see hmaservice for picture of it).
2. arming switch is turned ON, MSD fuel pump starts pumping, fuel pressure builds up on the fuel rail, fuel flows into the one way valve and SHUTS IT OFF, fuel continues to flow at high pressure levels into the fuel rail for use with nitrous.
3. arming switch turned off again, MSD pump shuts off, and fuel flow goes through the one way valve again, like stock.
what does this solve ? no more fouled plugs. no more fuel pump noise while driving normally !!!
you are all welcome for this wonderful invetion that i have come up with. good luck installing it/using it on your hyundai's !!!!
I will install this system asap, by this weekend i will have it done smile.gif its so damn simple !!! why didnt i think of it sooner ! hahaha
another explenation of how it works is this:
when the pump is off, the fuel goes through the one way valve because it is the path of least resistance. but, when the pump is on, the pressure on the other side forces the one way valve to close.. and it builds up a good amount of fuel pressure to keep the engine happy when using nitrous
it took me a few minutes to think this up.. and here is my solution...
see diagram..
1. arming switch is OFF, fuel flows through the one way valve to the fuel rail. (same valve that is in the fuel lines in the tank, see hmaservice for picture of it).
2. arming switch is turned ON, MSD fuel pump starts pumping, fuel pressure builds up on the fuel rail, fuel flows into the one way valve and SHUTS IT OFF, fuel continues to flow at high pressure levels into the fuel rail for use with nitrous.
3. arming switch turned off again, MSD pump shuts off, and fuel flow goes through the one way valve again, like stock.
what does this solve ? no more fouled plugs. no more fuel pump noise while driving normally !!!
you are all welcome for this wonderful invetion that i have come up with. good luck installing it/using it on your hyundai's !!!!
I will install this system asap, by this weekend i will have it done smile.gif its so damn simple !!! why didnt i think of it sooner ! hahaha
another explenation of how it works is this:
when the pump is off, the fuel goes through the one way valve because it is the path of least resistance. but, when the pump is on, the pressure on the other side forces the one way valve to close.. and it builds up a good amount of fuel pressure to keep the engine happy when using nitrous
03-07-2002, 06:45 AM
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Man this wet system is kicking my but. Can't understand the fuel line stuff with the extra fuel pump. Is that MSD pump inline with the stock pump where the stock pump is feeding the MSD pump? If so how does the MSD pump help put more fuel into the intake? wouldnt it give the same amout of fuel because the stock fuel pump is sitting before it? ( basically using the same amount of fuel the stock pump is sending only now it is being distributed to the fuel rail and the intake ). The stock pump will only pump as fast as the ecu tells it too. I think you could understand my question. I could see this working if the MSD pump was taking a seperate suction off the tank but you have it drawn up like its pulling from what the stock pump is giving it. Sorry if this sounds stupid.
[ March 07, 2002, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: SCCA 01 Elantra ]
[ March 07, 2002, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: SCCA 01 Elantra ]
03-07-2002, 06:47 AM
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good question.
the fact is that two pumps inline actually SUCK MORE out of the tank than just one.
so it does in fact increase flow and pressure regardless of what other people think/say.
smile.gif
thats why companies like vortex and others sell inline pumps to work with their centrifugal superchargers that are designed to pump out over 400 hp on some engines !
the fact is that two pumps inline actually SUCK MORE out of the tank than just one.
so it does in fact increase flow and pressure regardless of what other people think/say.
smile.gif
thats why companies like vortex and others sell inline pumps to work with their centrifugal superchargers that are designed to pump out over 400 hp on some engines !
03-07-2002, 10:59 AM
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In many process systems they're controlling the flow to a constant value, and given another pump the pressure will increase. But with a nozzle the flow is dependent on pressure, as P increases so does flow. So long as you are not near the max flow capacity of the pump you will increase both at the same time.
Of course one of the pumps could be doing all the work, and the other is simply being pulled or pushed by the flow. This will tend to happen with incompressable fluids.
[ March 07, 2002, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: Veniston ]
Of course one of the pumps could be doing all the work, and the other is simply being pulled or pushed by the flow. This will tend to happen with incompressable fluids.
[ March 07, 2002, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: Veniston ]
03-07-2002, 01:23 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Veniston:
In many process systems they're controlling the flow to a constant value, and given another pump the pressure will increase. But with a nozzle the flow is dependent on pressure, as P increases so does flow. So long as you are not near the max flow capacity of the pump you will increase both at the same time.
Of course one of the pumps could be doing all the work, and the other is simply being pulled or pushed by the flow. This will tend to happen with incompressable fluids.</div>So that basically sounds like what I said. I did think about the MSD pump pulling the other one but wouldn't that damage the stock pump?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Chris H:
What the heck is a fuel solenoid?
</div>The fuel solenoid is placed between the main fuel system and the air intake. When both niros solenoids are activated the fuel solenoid is activated allowing the fuel flow to the air intake right along with the nitros.
this is why it is called a wet fogger system instead of a dry fogger that has just nitros being sent into the intake.
In many process systems they're controlling the flow to a constant value, and given another pump the pressure will increase. But with a nozzle the flow is dependent on pressure, as P increases so does flow. So long as you are not near the max flow capacity of the pump you will increase both at the same time.
Of course one of the pumps could be doing all the work, and the other is simply being pulled or pushed by the flow. This will tend to happen with incompressable fluids.</div>So that basically sounds like what I said. I did think about the MSD pump pulling the other one but wouldn't that damage the stock pump?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Chris H:
What the heck is a fuel solenoid?
</div>The fuel solenoid is placed between the main fuel system and the air intake. When both niros solenoids are activated the fuel solenoid is activated allowing the fuel flow to the air intake right along with the nitros. this is why it is called a wet fogger system instead of a dry fogger that has just nitros being sent into the intake.
03-07-2002, 01:30 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>SCCA 01 Elantra:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Veniston:
In many process systems they're controlling the flow to a constant value, and given another pump the pressure will increase. But with a nozzle the flow is dependent on pressure, as P increases so does flow. So long as you are not near the max flow capacity of the pump you will increase both at the same time.
Of course one of the pumps could be doing all the work, and the other is simply being pulled or pushed by the flow. This will tend to happen with incompressable fluids.</div>So that basically sounds like what I said. I did think about the MSD pump pulling the other one but wouldn't that damage the stock pump? I wouls still rather set it up like I said before. Put the MSD pump all by itself like a seperate fuel system. all it would take is to make a hole in the gas tank and add a fitting. smile.gif Hell if you really want to make something really neat do that and add another pressure regulator to it ( which you would probably have to do anyway ) and set something up to sence nitros pressure and adjust the fuel flow accordingly to that. This way if you want 70hp total and your nitros pressure is a little low the fuel system would compensate for it. Its cinda like a "stand alone fuel management system" If this sounds out of the way or don't understand it then take alook at FordFasteR's website and look over the wet calculations for total hp gain of a wet fogger. Or maybe you would wind up running too rich what do I know. Let me know whether or not I am right FordFaster.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Chris H:
What the heck is a fuel solenoid? </div>The fuel solenoid is placed between the main fuel system and the air intake. When both niros solenoids are activated the fuel solenoid is activated allowing the fuel flow to the air intake right along with the nitros.
this is why it is called a wet fogger system instead of a dry fogger that has just nitros being sent into the intake.</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Veniston:
In many process systems they're controlling the flow to a constant value, and given another pump the pressure will increase. But with a nozzle the flow is dependent on pressure, as P increases so does flow. So long as you are not near the max flow capacity of the pump you will increase both at the same time.
Of course one of the pumps could be doing all the work, and the other is simply being pulled or pushed by the flow. This will tend to happen with incompressable fluids.</div>So that basically sounds like what I said. I did think about the MSD pump pulling the other one but wouldn't that damage the stock pump? I wouls still rather set it up like I said before. Put the MSD pump all by itself like a seperate fuel system. all it would take is to make a hole in the gas tank and add a fitting. smile.gif Hell if you really want to make something really neat do that and add another pressure regulator to it ( which you would probably have to do anyway ) and set something up to sence nitros pressure and adjust the fuel flow accordingly to that. This way if you want 70hp total and your nitros pressure is a little low the fuel system would compensate for it. Its cinda like a "stand alone fuel management system" If this sounds out of the way or don't understand it then take alook at FordFasteR's website and look over the wet calculations for total hp gain of a wet fogger. Or maybe you would wind up running too rich what do I know. Let me know whether or not I am right FordFaster.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Chris H:
What the heck is a fuel solenoid?
</div>The fuel solenoid is placed between the main fuel system and the air intake. When both niros solenoids are activated the fuel solenoid is activated allowing the fuel flow to the air intake right along with the nitros. this is why it is called a wet fogger system instead of a dry fogger that has just nitros being sent into the intake.</div>
03-07-2002, 01:31 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>SCCA 01 Elantra:
So that basically sounds like what I said. I did think about the MSD pump pulling the other one but wouldn't that damage the stock pump?</div>Yeah I was thinking that myself, but I think it depends on what is really happening.
The work done by a pump is related to the pressure differential across it. If the stock pump is pushing fuel, there will be a positive differential and the drive will still be working normally. If the MSD pump is way over the capacity of the stock pump it could be pulling hard through the stock pump(which could even result in a negative differential), which would damage the drive eventually. But since it only runs while the nitrous is spraying, this isn't going to be happening very often.
Bottom line: the setup could potentially damage the stock pump drive, but off the top of my head I can't say whether that is happening.
If I had the pump curves and nozzle specs I'm sure I could model it smile.gif
So that basically sounds like what I said. I did think about the MSD pump pulling the other one but wouldn't that damage the stock pump?</div>Yeah I was thinking that myself, but I think it depends on what is really happening.
The work done by a pump is related to the pressure differential across it. If the stock pump is pushing fuel, there will be a positive differential and the drive will still be working normally. If the MSD pump is way over the capacity of the stock pump it could be pulling hard through the stock pump(which could even result in a negative differential), which would damage the drive eventually. But since it only runs while the nitrous is spraying, this isn't going to be happening very often.
Bottom line: the setup could potentially damage the stock pump drive, but off the top of my head I can't say whether that is happening.
If I had the pump curves and nozzle specs I'm sure I could model it smile.gif