<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tdonnell @ Nov 6 2005, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If they do agree to fix the kit in regards to your suggestions, I am still in.</div>

Well, if you dump out now, you'll be banned from Classifieds.

LOL

The kit is still a great kit, we just don't need 1/2 the stuff they include with it. It makes the install about 2 times as long to install all those studs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I also agree they should drop the kit price about $15 as well.</div>

Only if they dump those items off the list. If they still include them, even if you don't use them, it's still worth that much.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I suppose it will take another couple of months for them to get it all finalized and ready to ship.</div>

Don't see why, should take a week at tops.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denisst99 @ Nov 6 2005, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>to fix the throtlle cable "problem" they could include 2 littles spacer that would be installed between the intake manifold and throttle cable bracket,quite cheap and effective ;-)</div>

Hmm, can you do a sketch or something? I don't know what you mean.

 

fing02.gif How hot was it outside when the temps were taken, just about? Does very noticable mean like as much as a cai or half? Sounds good maybe Ill try to bore the IM and TB when I do the install cool.gif

 

Temp outside during testing was 74 degrees.

Very noticible to someone that drives the car all the time. I'd say maybe half the CAI. But my favorite thing so far is you don't get that LAG. You know when you've been driving for awhile and your car seems sluggish?

Gone.

 

i'll try to get you a pic
but should be quite easy to visualize.. the cable is held onto the intake manifold by a little steel bracket
this bracket is held on the intake manifold by 2 bolts, the spacers would got there

 

yeah if they fix this it would be awsome. why should we pay for something that is not needed at all. i would like it to be as close to direct fit as possible. and custom bore size for TB would be awsome.

REDZ thank you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denisst99 @ Nov 6 2005, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i'll try to get you a pic
but should be quite easy to visualize.. the cable is held onto the intake manifold by a little steel bracket
this bracket is held on the intake manifold by 2 bolts, the spacers would got there</div>

Ahhh, got ya.

Wouldn't it be easier to just include a new bracket that moves the adjustment point to the TB a half inch?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HyundaiKitCoupe @ Nov 6 2005, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>yeah if they fix this it would be awsome. why should we pay for something that is not needed at all. i would like it to be as close to direct fit as possible. and custom bore size for TB would be awsome.

REDZ thank you.</div>

You know, I'd be happy if they left the kit as is, made the spacer to the bore size needed, and included the new throttle bracket for the same price.

Hell, they could cut out the studs and nuts and include the bracket for the same price. That much easier for them to pack and ship.

Guess I should upload the pics now.

And NP mang, that's my job.

 

damn man? How thick are these things?

in this pic they don't look thick enough to cause our idel to be so FUBAR-ed that you can't even adjust it back to normal. LOL, look at em, they are like 1/8"



If they ARE indeed like a whole inch thick that's not a good thing. My AEM is already like millimeters away from my battery tray, if I add an inch to the top of the intake tubing that's gonna puch the AEM into the battery.

 

No, they are, at the most, 1/4 inch thick. I think they have it listed on their site. They have a gasket on both sides of the spacer.

But also, like I said, I installed a new throttle cable today too. Could be part of the issue.



For everyone else, I thought I posted this before...

http://www.outlawengineering.com/techframe.html

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>FACT: Every 5°F reduction in temperature increases the density of the air and therefore the power by 1%.

Why? From chemistry class, we remember PV=nRT, the Perfect Gas Law. This simple equation signifies that the volume of a gas is directly proportional to the temperature of that gas, in this case air. Cold air is denser than hot air. Why is this important to the performance enthusiast? Simple, your engine can ingest more air when it is cooler and denser; more air can be mixed with more fuel, which releases MORE POWER.

For example, a 150hp engine can gain an additional 3 hp for every 10°F the temperature drops. In modern EFI engines, the intake charge is drawn through an intake tube, filter, MAF (or VAF, etc.) and throttle body and into the aluminum intake manifold. The manifold is made up of a plenum and runners that direct the air into the intake ports in the cylinder head. However, during its residence in the intake, the air charge picks up unwanted heat, which increases its volume. By blocking the heat transferred from the engine, ThermoBlok spacers reduce the temperature of the intake manifold and therefore the air entering the engine. This search for cooler air is the reason behind cold air intake tubes, intercoolers, and icing down the manifold between quarter mile runs.</div>

So. If, with all my mods, I'm running about 150 HP, and the Air Temps I recorded were what, 25 Degrees cooler? Then it's safe to say by the statement above that it's about 7 HP. For $89, that's 12 bucks per HP. Better than you'd get in many places.


I'd also like to note the following.

1. I've taken several mechanics of materials classes and tons of plastics classes back in school. Out of all the spacers I've seen made for any car, these are the absolute best.

a. Hondata.com $65 shipped. You get a 1/8 inch thick gasket copy, with rough facing and backing, and it's very soft. Not Phenolic plastic. Shitty customer service.

b. Nextgear - Don't make one for us yet, but said they would. Uses the exact same plastic as Hondata.com . Customer service is ... Meh, at best. Said they use a special plastic, it's the exact same as Hondata's cheap shit though.

c. Ebay Spacer - The black one, I forget who makes it. Not bad, but not a true phenolic plastic. Pretty rough in cut, needs cleaned up when you buy it.

d. Outlaw Engineering - $89 shipped. You get everything you need and more, to include the only kit with gaskets built in, no air leaks here. Well made, perfect cuts, and pretty good customer service.

2. True Phenolic Plastic is very hard, and very stiff. If you can easily bend it, it's not phenolic. Phenolic plastic is made by mixing phenol and formaldehyde, and is a thermoset plastic. Meaning once it is made, it can't be reused or recycled. It's heat exchange is almost non existant. You know those plastic covers for your handles on your pans and lids? Phenolic. The hondata.com and nextgear ones show up WARPED to the cardboard/vaccum sealed packaging, and you bend them easily by hand. I could barely get the Outlaw one to show a curve at all. if I would have pushed it harder, it would have broken.

All in all, again, I highly recommend this mod. It lengthens the runners, cools your intake charge, and will definately make you happy.

I just double checked on their site, it's 1/4 inch. Plus the 2 thin gaskets, maybe another 1/8th if that.

Another neat note, these guys are the only ones I've ever seen that did PHENOLIC WASHERS too. So you wouldn't get heat transfer from the studs/nuts to the IM that way either.

They had to stop including them because of durability issues, but what a idea eh?

I just uploaded these, and will upload the others after I circle stuff for the DIY and such.

Here's the pics and comments.


Another issue I almost forgot. This harness connector that sits on the lower IM bolt on the passenger side. With the studs THIS long, the threads sat ON the wire. This is not good, and under vibration it will cut a hole in the wire. I had to bend the hell out of the bracket to get it to NOT sit on the wire.


Close up of OEM stud on the IM when torqued down. Note that the threads are just coming clear of the nut. The OEM studs are long enough. Also note all the EXTRA thread left on the NEW studs.


The coolant "Nipple". Note that it's way too big to use if we even wanted to. The coolant bypass is done via my previous DIY, just remove one of the 2 hoses and loop the other. Tada!


The spacer and 8 of 9 replaced studs.


One of 4 studs for the TB replaced. Note how extremely large the new studs are? Also, if you have an aftermarket BBTB with a thin flange, you will need some washers in order to be able to put enough torque down so you don't have a leak.


Look at the quality here. Wow. Very nice. No need to worry about which gasket goes where, or anything being torn on accident, it's all together. The center portion is the phenolic plastic, 1/4 inch thick.


The 2 spacers.




Some temperature testing with RDTiburon.com 's first site bought tool. A Craftsman Pyromometer. Infrared non contact Thermometer. The red laser is the testing area.


Blurry picture of the finished install, I'll get some better pics.


Finished install of the TB and spacer. Note the extra inch or more of stud than needed? I'm not dogging on Outlaw, keep in mind that this is the prototype kit. A couple of quick fixes, and we are in business.

 

i think it will be easier for them to include two little spacer and longuer bolts then make a new bracket
the bracket would need to be done on a press with some kind of die to form it,you don't want a flat steel plate with a "forward" bend,it will eventually bend out of shape
btw nice write up ;-)

 

Heh, you ain't seen my writeup yet. LOL

Now get me some parts so I can review them.